Ep. 56 — 204 "Redanian Intelligence" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)
Dallas Wheatley from the US and Emma Sherr-Ziarko from the US join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 204 “Redanian Intelligence”. Very important bits include: Emma pairs the Witcher with wine, an introduction to the world of audio fiction, practical v. CGI effects, comparisons between the show and Chapter 2 of Blood of Elves, and a minor meltdown over how long it’s been since Lord of the Rings.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[0:00] Cold Open
[1:37] Introduction
[4:02] Discussion
[31:58] “Tidings from Toussaint”
[36:16] “Dear Friend…” Listener Call In-Segment
[37:02] Discussion
[57:58] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: I would love a character development Witcher show that was less reliant on action.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And I'm just like "Ah! Bridgerton but Witcher."
EMMA: Yeah!
DALLAS: Ah! Witcher audio drama!
EMMA: Yes!
ALYSSA: Yeah, basically.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Could you imagine an entire Witcher audio drama sequence of just "Uh! Ah! Ooh!"
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: But I mean exactly. It'd have to be a lot more, like, verbal.
ALYSSA: "Geralt, why aren't you putting your sword down!".
EMMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DALLAS: Like, I think if it was an audio fiction as well you'd almost have to put Geralt as, like, a secondary character
ALYSSA: Oh, yeah.
DALLAS: As more of like an observer of, like, the political situations.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: Rather than the main internal monologue.
ALYSSA: Make it all about tavern wench number six.
EMMA: It's all about tavern wench number six.
ALYSSA: "I'm here, hello?"
EMMA: Ah, it's genius!
ALYSSA: "Just ask me for a drink. Or roast pheasant."
DALLAS: Well I'm gonna send you a contact right now. Let's do this.
EMMA: This is Gold. This is Gold. Thank God we're recording this.
DALLAS: We're recording. I don't even need you at rehearsal, I'm using this.
ALYSSA: Perfect! I'll improv the whole thing.
EMMA: No notes.
DALLAS: No notes.
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[Belfast Recap]
We had a great time in Belfast and if you’d like to join us in Boston this August, join the Hanza Discord at bit.ly/thehanzadiscord for details.
[Patron Announcements]
This episode, we welcome Jackdaw Jones from the UK to our hanza on Patreon! Thanks to our patrons and producer-level patrons: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
If you’d like to learn more about becoming a patron of the show, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.
[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Dallas Wheatley from the US and Emma Sherr-Ziarko from the US call in for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 204 “Redanian Intelligence”. Find out which wine Emma pairs with the Witcher, discover an introduction to the world of audio fiction, and join us as we discuss practical v. CGI effects, comparisons between the show and Chapter 2 of Blood of Elves, and have a minor meltdown over how long it’s been since Lord of the Rings.
In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares production updates from The Witcher Season 3 set. After the break, don’t miss our listener call in segment, Dear Friend.
Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 204 “Redanian Intelligence” (Part 1).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, my name is Alyssa and today we're welcoming two new guests to the show. My first guest is an actor with over 25 years of experience on stage and eight years in voice acting in audio drama, narration, indie games, and animation. She's also an acting coach who was best known for her work in audio drama, most notably as Commander Minkowski on the Webby Award nominated Wolf 359, which was also the first audio drama I've listened to. It's really good.
DALLAS: It's really good.
EMMA: Oh, thank you! Thank you!
ALYSSA: She works in wine and wine education and hosts the podcast Pairing where she pairs wine with art and pop culture.
DALLAS: Which is also very good.
EMMA: Oh, thank you. Oh, geez.
ALYSSA: Please welcome Emma Sherr-Ziarko from the US. Hello, Emma.
EMMA: Hello. I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
ALYSSA: I'm beyond thrilled to have you, like, if you guys have not listened to Wolf 359, that was the show they got, I'm going to talk about this more later. I don't know, I'm talking about it now. But it was the show that got me into audio dramas and you're going to love it. You're going to love it very much.
EMMA: Uh, thank you so much.
ALYSSA: And my second guest is a writer, voice actor and director who has appeared on shows like Windfall, Let The Old Wives Tell It, Whichever Path, White Vault: Iluka, and Moonbase Theta, Out. They also appear on Space Ranger 421 as Dr. Theo Jones. He owns a soap business called Shire Suds and also has a podcast called The Soap Opera, which is a wholesome soap making podcast. They're also the creator of Fireside Folktales; a show where each season is a different full length story. Please welcome Dallas Hawthorn from the US. Hello Dallas, welcome!
DALLAS: Hello, hello. I'm also very excited to be here.
ALYSSA: Yes, I'm thrilled. So I'm familiar with some of the shows in your lovely resume. I have such a low threshold for horror and thrillers. And I feel like I've heard some of these are very horror and very thriller.
DALLAS: I told me three years ago that it'd be voice acting in, like, primarily horror podcasts. I'd probably laugh at you, but it's frankly, it's some of the most fun I've had. I absolutely love it.
EMMA: What an awesome niche. I love it.
DALLAS: It's great.
EMMA: Yeah, yeah.
DALLAS: It's great. You get that cackle down and suddenly, it's like doors just fling wide open.
EMMA: I just wanted to say that I haven't listened to all of those shows, but all of them that I have listened to are amazing. So if you check out Wolf 359 and you like that, you're gonna like a lot of these shows that Dallas is on.
DALLAS: Yeah, absolutely.
ALYSSA: I cannot wait to, like, dive into audio dramas with you, but just to start off, how did you both get into the Witcher?
DALLAS: I didn't really grow up with video games, and I would say like four or five years ago, I was dating somebody with a PS4. They got me The Witcher 3, the video game, for my birthday, immediately obsessed. I think it was the first video game that wasn't Mario that I've ever actually finished. And I am still searching for a video game that lives up to the hype that I felt when I first played that through, because it's absolutely incredible storytelling. After that, I started stepping into the, to the books and I've been consuming the TV show like It's popcorn with popcorn. I can't get enough I keep trying to find more and more reasons to talk about it
ALYSSA: Well, Breakfast in Beauclair is a great one. I'm glad I can give you that.
DALLAS: I'm so excited. Thank you.
ALYSSA: What about you Emma?
EMMA: Um. So, I actually have a very similar story, though it is a little bit more condensed, though my first introduction to The Witcher was the first season of the Netflix series. So that was my first introduction to anything Witcher. I then played Witcher 3, which was not only the first video game I'd played in a long time, but the first video game I'd ever played. And I'm going to age myself because I was 30 when I played it, it was two years ago, when the pandemic hit and my partner Winston was like "you need to do this". And I liked the show so much because I had been very skeptical actually about The Witcher and everything I'd heard about it. For some reason, I thought it wasn't going to be something that I liked, which is crazy. And so I played Witcher 3, had a phenomenal experience. Loved it. And then was engaging with another podcaster friend of ours, Esther Ellis, as I was playing through. And she suggested that we form a Witcher book club to read through all the books. So Esther and a couple other friends and I spent last year reading through all the books. And I think we finished before the second season came out. We might, we might not have read Season of Storms yet. So I've had a lot of Witcher content in my life, like very condensed in the past two years. And so I'm obsessed and I'm super excited to be here talking about it.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so fun. I don't know if we've talked to anyone yet who came through the show.
EMMA: Hey!
ALYSSA: And then read all the books.
EMMA: Hey!
ALYSSA: Not that I could think of. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be wrong. But so what was the experience coming from the show to the books for you?
EMMA: I actually really like it. And I'm normally somebody who must read books first before watching the show or the movie, but I actually thought that coming into it through the show was a great introduction to the world. And I actually, and this might be controversial, but I think that either the show or the games are a better place to start than the books depending on who you are.
DALLAS: Oh, that's really interesting.
EMMA: 'Cause I love them. I love them, but they can be challenging. And I think parts of them could be off putting to people if that's where you dive in. And I think there's just a little bit more approachability to the series and the games while still carrying the spirit that Sapkowski has in the books.
DALLAS: That's actually a really interesting thing because I think I absorbed the lore of The Witcher universe a lot easier when he was coming through the game for me.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: I think specifically as well because of the way it was framed in the game, like, you learned all these bits of lore, sort of as you encountered it rather than like a lot of video games. I feel like they hand it to you in a book and they're like "here's the lore, read it all right now!"
EMMA: Yeah, totally.
DALLAS: And whereas with the Witcher books, I haven't read all of them, I've got the the first little compendium of three stories and those are very, like, bite sized pieces of The Witcher, they feel more like experiences
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: One more thing I want to ask about the Witcher, before I start to ask you guys all about audio dramas.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Emma you host 'Pairing' which is a podcast that pairs wine with art and pop culture.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: So you recently did an episode on the Witcher and I'd love to hear about, like, what wines you think pair best with the Witcher just because in our discord server, if you're not already in the Hanza discord, um, we have a Beauclair Brewhouse channel–
EMMA: Oh, Amazing!
ALYSSA: –in which people talk about all sorts of drinks and things. So I'm sure they'd love to hear your recommendations for a great wine to pair with The Witcher.
EMMA: Oh, absolutely. Um, so I did recently released this episode with, with my, with my little Witcher book club. Well, one of the things I talked about is the wines that Sapkowski talks about in the books and the wines that we see in like Blood and Wine in, in the games, a lot of them are based on real wine in real life, which is a cool thing that I think Sapkowski does is he, like, pulls in things from the real world to kind of ground us. But the wines that he chose are, like, really random. They're they're not typical wines. They're especially, you know, we get most of the wine in Toussaint in Beauclair, which is very, you know, French-coded, but almost all the wines that he references are Italian white wines.
DALLAS: He had a very specific taste. This man drinks white wine and white wine only.
EMMA: It might be, it might be! Like, I don't know if that's like what they get in Poland. Like, I don't know, I don't know what it, what it is or why but like one of the wines- Well, in the. in the games, at least Vermentino is a vineyard. In the real world, Vermentino is a grape, which is delicious. But it's, like, a little obscure. And then I wanted to share, I think your listeners would appreciate this, this little anecdote, I'm guessing the wine Est Est, is based on a wine in real life, called Est! Est!! Est!!! that literally has increasing numbers of exclamation points after each est. We don't know if this is actually true, but there's like an apocryphal story that in the, like, 13th century or something around Rome, some Bishop, like, sent a messenger on a journey from some village to Rome, and was supposed to find like where there was all the good wine. When he found a good wine he would write on the door of the tavern: est. And then he found one that was really good, like, really good. And so he called it Est! Est!! Est!!! and he wrote that on the door and I felt like that's something that would totally happen in The Witcher.
DALLAS: Oh, that feels like it honestly.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: That feels like a random NPC quest.
EMMA: Totally, right? Right? Or, like we get a chapter in the books from the perspective of this messenger and we have no idea why we're getting it. And then it becomes clear like a few chapters later.
ALYSSA: Yeah, chapters of messengers aren't unheard of in The Witcher.
EMMA: Yeah, exactly, exactly. The thing about it is, it's like, it's not a particularly well known or remarkable wine. It's like just a very basic table white wine and you don't see it a lot. Definitely not in the States, maybe you see it more in Europe, but I think I've sold one, maybe, in my career in wine retail. So anyway, I thought that was funny. In terms of what wine I would actually pair with The Witcher I wanted to talk about, I was pretty proud of my pairing for Geralt specifically, which is Cabernet Franc, which is a red wine that has a lot of like earthiness and can be really like, hard to drink at first. But usually if you let them, like, open up and settle down, like the fruit starts coming out, like, nice red fruit. And so I said, I said in the last episode of Pairing, like Geralt can seem unfriendly at first, but he actually has a very fruity soul. I wanted to bring that here.
ALYSSA: I feel like that's not wrong. He is a remarkably, remarkably soft boy. Particularly throughout the books.
EMMA: Yes!
DALLAS: Like one of those watermelon candies that your grandmother would always have, where it's like really hard and crunchy on the outside and you bite into it and there's that little gooey center.
ALYSSA: The hilarious thing is that I know exactly we're talking about. And I feel like, like strawberry or watermelon and yeah, I can, like, taste it.
DALLAS: Oh, they were strawberry, not watermelon. You can't even find those in stores anymore. I don't think.
ALYSSA: I think all stores have them are, like, in your grandmother's basement.
EMMA: Yeah!
ALYSSA: From the 1970s.
DALLAS: Yeah! She bought all of them.
ALYSSA: So before we close out this introduction, I would just love to talk to you guys about audio drama and unabashedly sell the idea of audio drama to our listeners. Compared to discussion podcasts like Breakfast in Beauclair, audio fiction is, you know, typically scripted, whether that's based on nonfiction or fiction work. And you can have actors, characters, individual narrative-driven stories, but they're so fun. And my transition from listening to mostly discussion podcasts to listening to mostly audio drama has just been so interesting and it's so cool to like, see the medium of audio be, like, stretched and explored and pushed in all of these different ways which is why I'm super excited. But yeah, so, for people who listen to a lot of discussion podcasts, such as Breakfast in Beauclair, what would you recommend for, like, a first step or foray into audio drama?
DALLAS: For me at least, it took me a while to get into audio fiction. But I've always found, for people who are already in the habit of listening to things without having that visual cue that you get from things like TV shows, any kind of like narration based audio fiction is always a really good first step. So I know Moonbase Theta, Out, their first season is essentially just like letters home from a space station. So it's usually single narration, some guy just sitting down talking about what happened in the space station that day. And it's a lot easier to sort of dive into the world without being too overwhelmed with like, 5, 6, 7 different voices coming at you all at once. Not recommending it because I'm in it!
EMMA: But also!
DALLAS: Also that! If you want to hear more of me. I mean.
EMMA: Yes, absolutely! I imagine folks listening to this particular show are fans of fantasy, and maybe science fiction. And there's a lot of that in audio drama, I would say the majority of the audio dramas that I've worked on have been either fantasy or sci fi somehow, what I will just say is, if you're not sold on the idea of audio drama, I would encourage you to rethink that because there are some of the most exciting and innovative stories being told right now, in audio fiction. It's still mostly under the radar. I mean, I know every two weeks, the New York Times is like, "Look! Someone just invented audio drama!", and we're all like, "Hi, we've been here for 10 years, 15 years". But yeah, I think narration based is a great way to maybe enter into it, or find a genre that appeals to you, you know, like, Wolf 359 if you like science fiction, if we're going to shamelessly self plug, and to self plug further, I was also in another show created by the same folks who made Wolf 359 called Unseen, which is–
ALYSSA: Also very good.
DALLAS: Also incredible.
EMMA: Thank you! And, and that's, that's another one that I think kind of marries the idea that you brought in, Dallas, because the first season at least is all from the perspective of one character. And so it's almost more like absorbing an audiobook, just kind of from the perspective of a character. And so that's a cool one.
ALYSSA: My mind is so distracted by “first season at least”. And I was like, wait.
DALLAS: Oh, yeah.
EMMA: I don't know. They won't tell me anything. I keep asking Gabriel. I'm like, Are you making more? What are we doing? What's going on? And he won't tell me, so I don't know. I'm, I'm saying that wishfully that there will be.
ALYSSA: Manifest it.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Manifest it.
EMMA: Exactly. Exactly.
DALLAS: You'll just bring it to life by talking about it. People will demand it so much.
EMMA: Exactly. In the headlines tomorrow. “Emma Sherr-Ziarko says there will be a second season of Unseen!”
DALLAS: And if you're still, like, really hesitant about stepping into something that's more of like a first person kind of fictional experience, like, Old Gods of Appalachia is a truly phenomenal show. His voice is incredible, like, everything runs at a very particular cadence and a very particular rhythm. I feel like it's a really great stepping stone into audio fiction because it is these fictional and sometimes serialized stories, but told almost like a nonfiction True Crime.
EMMA: Totally! Just to take a total left turn just because today they aired the series finale–
ALYSSA: The final episode of Wooden Overcoats!
EMMA: I know! I have to shout out one of my absolute favorite audio dramas “Wooden Overcoats, which is a very different kind of show, and is very comedy based. If you grew up with any sort of British comedy in your life if that's something that appeals to you, you will adore Wooden Overcoats, so that's just gonna be my plug.
DALLAS: Oh, God! Also Death by Dying.
EMMA: Yes!
ALYSSA: Wooden Overcoats is my all time favorite podcast, like, hard stop, period. If you like The Witcher, and you enjoy the humor that is in the books, especially. Oh, you're gonna love Wooden Overcoats. You're gonna love it. It's so good. I love this stuff so much and I’m so excited that I got to talk to both of you about it, because it's not something that I get to talk about a lot in Breakfast in Beauclair, but yeah. So, and then eventually when the show that we're producing comes out, hopefully later this year–
EMMA: Yes!
ALYSSA: You guys will be able to enjoy it.
DALLAS: Hell yeah, hell yes!
EMMA: I can't wait.
DALLAS: I just hope that if we talk about audio fiction enough on your show, somebody is going to contact me for a Witcher show.
EMMA: Yes.
DALLAS: Like, let's just say that that's my end goal. Like, I'm just putting that out there. I have ideas. I have actors, we can do this.
ALYSSA: I feel like The Witcher would be very cool in audio.
EMMA: Absolutely!
DALLAS: I think there would be a lot of interesting stuff to do with sound design.
ALYSSA: Yes.
EMMA: If you need a Yennefer I'm just gonna…
DALLAS: Oh, yeah.
EMMA: Put my name in there.
DALLAS: Oh, honey I know.
ALYSSA: I can be anyone, I'm happy to be old wench number 6, "Hello? Do you need beer?"
EMMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect! You got it. You're cast, you got it.
ALYSSA: Amazing. So, back on the subject of The Witcher as we seem to have found ourselves, it seems like it is time to dive into the show. And so today we'll continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher Season 2 with Episode 204 "Redanian Intelligence", in which Triss Merigold arrives at Kaer Morhen to help the Witchers with their ward, as Yennefer and Cahir attempt to make their way to Cintra. In the first scene, as Ciri and Geralt are on the trail, they meet Triss Merigold in the forest and accompany her back to the keep. As you've noted in your notes, Emma, this scene is pretty darn similar to what happens in Blood of Elves and I believe chapter two of Blood of Elves, but yeah, did you guys have any thoughts on this?
EMMA: Yeah, I, part of why I wanted to talk about this episode in particular is that this is the first episode of the second season, maybe the first episode aside, but the first episode is it's kind of its own thing, where I really felt like, we were getting more of what's actually in Blood of Elves, more of the story. And also, I was getting more and more on board with some of the changes that were made, as we may talk about later. I think Dallas and I both have strong feelings about some of the changes that were made in earlier episodes.
ALYSSA: Right.
DALLAS: Yeah.
EMMA: And, and like I've calmed down since I watched it the first time, the first time I watched it, I was very upset.
DALLAS: I was emotional.
EMMA: Yeah, yeah. But this episode, like you said, like meeting Triss, like that's a very iconic moment from the books for me of Ciri meeting Triss. Just seeing that at the beginning of this episode, I was like, "Oh, yes, I know this". And, and I think there were, there are more moments like that throughout the episode where I was like, "Oh, yes." And also where I got excited about some of the changes that were made.
DALLAS: I think this is one of those moments where I'm probably gonna be talking about production aspect of the show.
ALYSSA: That's my favorite part, so please, go, go.
EMMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALYSSA: Be free.
DALLAS: It's something I've always been really obsessed with when it comes to the visual media is like, the efficacy of practical versus, like, animated effects. One of my favorite movies is Lord of the Rings, like they're really kind of the, like, gold standard. Emma. you know what I'm talking about?
EMMA: Oh, yeah.
DALLAS: Gold standard of, like, practical effects and visual media, like so much of that stuff still holds up.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: And it's like, what? 12 years after the first movie came out, and you can still watch it and still look flawless.
EMMA: It's 20, it's 20 years.
DALLAS: 20? No! Okay. Yeah, it’s totally fine, I'm fine. I'm fine.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: I don't feel old.
EMMA: Yeah. When you hear that number, you're like, "Oh, God".
DALLAS: That's wrong, that can't be right. It was 10 years ago. No, it was 20.
EMMA: No, it's was 20.
DALLAS: But you're, you're getting that flavor of the practical effects again, as especially in this season. But I think as well, with just all of the camera angles that we're getting, every time we see Ciri, like we're watching her age, so she's looking slightly taller, she's looking slightly more mature, we're still getting that that delicious, upper camera angle whenever she interacts with another character, especially somebody like Triss, like making her feel very small again, and we're dealing with an 18 year old actor here. I think she's almost 20 now, and she feels and she looks very vulnerable and very fragile, especially in that opening sequence when we're watching her trail behind Geralt as she's running through the forest, and like all of the hesitations that we're seeing, as she's crossing the rocks, and like every single moment where she's getting slapped by leaves and stuff. It's, it's delicious to me, I love it.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: I love it so much. And that juxtaposition as well when we see Triss emerging from the brush, like completely pristine, even though she's been walking through the woods for god knows how long, compared to see who's just going through it.
EMMA: Yeah, it is a theme that Triss and Yennefer and the sorceresses, they always look impeccable.
DALLAS: It's–and it's a great commitment as well, I think on the, on the term of the makeup team like they're on it.
EMMA: Oh, yeah.
ALYSSA: I think they actually just got nominated for a BAFTA actually. Uh, for hair and makeup.
EMMA: Oh, yay! Congratulations.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think that announcement just went out yesterday, maybe?
EMMA: Yeah, I think I saw, I saw that, that Witcher was nominated for some BAFTAs, but I didn't see which one specifically.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think it was. Ooh…I think it was hair and makeup was definitely one. I think sound design for episode one.
EMMA: Awesome. Yeah.
ALYSSA: And I think there was, there was one more that I'm forgetting, but I think it also had to do with Episode one.
DALLAS: I'll say wasn't the guy who did the-
EMMA: Nivellen?
DALLAS: the Mont- Yeah. Nivellen design.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: He was nominated for CGI award.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I don't remember which award that was. I think that was a number of weeks ago, maybe it was again for the BAFTA. They were definitely awarded that.
DALLAS: Time means nothing to me at this point.
EMMA: I know, I know.
ALYSSA: No, Lord of the Rings was 12 years.
DALLAS: No, I know
EMMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Double down. Double down.
ALYSSA: Exactly, exactly. Yep. Yeah, I mean, this scene is really fun, though. As we've said, it draws from the books and we get to see more of the landscape around Kaer Morhen. And it's very cool for us to see the kind of training that the witchers have been putting her through, because this is the only thing they know how to do with her.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So, I love that we're seeing that.
EMMA: And this is one of the first times that we're seeing Geralt and Ciri training together, we saw it a little bit earlier, but like, I really like how it's like, you see him, like, jumping across the rocks. And then it turns into her jumping across the rocks and him running through the woods, and then her running through the woods. And it's just this nice moment of like, visual connection between the two of them, and, and building their relationship that way.
DALLAS: I’ll also say it also felt like a very, very sort of like physical, physical marker of like, Geralt finally stepping up and being like, if I'm gonna have a kid, I'm gonna have a kid, like.
EMMA: Totally, totally.
DALLAS: More than just an object to protect, but like viewing Ciri as something actually, like malleable and living that he can work with.
ALYSSA: And I think notably in the books, she's by herself.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: And she is still when she meets Triss here, but Geralt is with her the whole time, which as you said, it's just really nice that we see him actually take her under his wing.
EMMA: And then he, he emerges with the boar over his-
DALLAS: Oh, god, that was amazing.
ALYSSA: And his bloody little hands.
EMMA: Yeah, very, very Aragorn, very Aragorn.
DALLAS: Daddy? Sorry.
EMMA: Oh, no, oh, no, don't be sorry.
ALYSSA: I mean, at that point, again, Triss and Geralt have their moment.
DALLAS: Oh, man.
ALYSSA: Re-meeting again, and Ciri's little face, like blurred out the back of just being like, "What the fuck is this?"
EMMA: I love the, like, running joke of, "So, how do you know her?" And he's always like, "Hmmmm.."
DALLAS: That's a long story, it very much reminded me of the video games where like, every time you meet another woman in the video games, it's like, "oh, did you have sex with her too?" Like, how many women have you slept with Geralt?
ALYSSA: At least three.
DALLAS: At least three.
EMMA: At least three. Yeah. Well, and that's actually a question because in, in the show, obviously, we met Triss in the first season.
ALYSSA: Yes, in Betrayer Moon, I believe.
EMMA: Yeah, in Temeria with Foltest. But in the books, this is the first time we meet her. I believe.
ALYSSA: Yeah, we hear of a Triss Merigold.
EMMA: Right. And if I'm not mistaken, also, these chapters in the books are from her perspective.
ALYSSA: Yes.
EMMA: We get some not so great stuff about her relationship with Geralt, which I don't need to get into, but my point is, I really liked what they did with Triss in the show. And, and I, and I liked the actress. I think Anna Shaffer is her name.
ALYSSA: Yes.
EMMA: She's, I think she's she does a really lovely job with the character because the people who love Triss love Triss from the games, generally speaking, she's a much bigger deal in the games than she, she's a big she's been part of the books but she's–
DALLAS: I actually, like, I like, I like show Triss better than game Trish, Triss.
EMMA: Yeah, I do too. Honestly.
DALLAS: I think, I think there's something very interesting about, I don't know if it's the directorial or if it's an actor's decision. But the very powerful juxtaposition we get with the way that Triss kind of approaches every situation with this, like insistent pleasantness, and insistent niceness, which is just so at odds with everything else happening around her that every so often you're like, "Oh".
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: "Oh, God", like it really draws your attention to the way some of these situations are just absolutely fucked.
ALYSSA: Yeah, that's a really great point about her character as well.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And that's definitely a change from the books, I think. Triss in the books is pleasant.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: She does have her own I think like inner confusion, turmoil, trauma, everything that you would expect from a well rounded character.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: So it's interesting to see that just be, be turned slightly and more pointed, I think.
EMMA: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I agree.
ALYSSA: The three of them, Ciri's confusion aside, all head back to Kaer Morhen, where as it turns out, Triss is familiar with the keep. She knows Vesemir, Cohen, and Lambert who she has a hard time with, as we also know, but she was welcomed.
EMMA: I do love Lambert in the show.
DALLAS: I'm glad they committed to Lambert being just like an absolute asshole.
EMMA: All right, yeah. Just a total, a total Hambo like, I love I love it. And, and the actor who plays him, I just, I think Paul Bullion is his name.
ALYSSA: Yeah, Paul Bullion.
DALLAS: Serious daddy issues.
EMMA: I love it. I love him. That's really fun. Also, yeah, when we get to see them starting to interact, and one thing that is in the books is this kind of tenderness between Triss and Vesemir, and I, and I definitely felt that in the show as well. And I thought that was a really nice, a really nice touch. Having the sense of he, he feels very fatherly or grandfatherly towards her. It's great to get another woman with agency into the keep.
ALYSSA: I think as Lambert says, he's like, "I haven't even had my grog yet the women are doubling." .
EMMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DALLAS: And like, and like I'm, like, thinking of, like, bringing more women with the agency and it's something I also really admire about the direction they took Triss is, like, in the game, all of the women felt like, yes, very well rounded. But after a while, they also started to feel like the same, sort of like they all had this same level of like, not necessarily vindictiveness, but like pointed aggression about their their traumas that they experienced at the hands of Geralt, like, they all kind of had the same, almost the same trauma and almost the same, like response mechanism towards it and it's really nice to get women in this show who react a little bit differently to similar traumas.
EMMA: And, and also their like, identity is not totally centered around Geralt.
ALYSSA: Yes, yeah.
DALLAS: Yeah.
EMMA: Obviously, there are reasons why that is in the game, because–
DALLAS: It's a game and first-person.
EMMA: And it's a game and you are, yeah. Exactly.
DALLAS: You're literally the main character.
EMMA: Exactly. So, that's something I love about Geralt that I think maybe Esther said that like Geralt is the main character, but doesn't want to be the main character, really doesn't want to be the main character.
ALYSSA: Yes. That's something that I think I love about him.
DALLAS: I love it.
ALYSSA: It's, he's the most reluctant of heroes.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: All of the time.
EMMA: Absolutely, absolutely.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we continue our discussion, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Dallas, Emma, and I will continue our discussion of “Redanian Intelligence”.
“Tidings from Toussaint”
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]
LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody! The filming for Season 3 is still well on its way. Unfortunately most of it takes place behind closed doors at Longcross Studios, so we don't really know what is happening exactly at the moment. But luckily, there are still a few things to report. Thanks to Redanian Intelligence we have learned about several new faces on the Witcher set - and old ones. Let us start with the sorceresses. The mages in Season 3 are growing in number. We know that actress Safiyya Ingar (whose casting we have previously known) will play the Temerian sorceress Keira Metz in the new season. In the books, she is quite a minor character (in opposite to her role in The Witcher 3), so it will be quite interesting to see what impact Keira Metz will leave on the story on the Netflix show. Moreover, Rochelle Rose will play Margarita Laux-Antille. She has appeared in the TV show Death in Paradise before. In the books, Margarita is a powerful sorceress who appears in Ciri's storyline and—without giving too much away—is heavily involved in the Magical Academy of Aretuza. Both actresses, by the way, have been spotted before shooting some scenes at Predjama Castle in Slovenia, together with several other sorceresses like Yennefer, Philippa or Triss back in April.
Another quite important casting for the new season has been reported by Redanian Intelligence as well. Young British actress Frances Pooley was cast for a character codenamed "Teryn". She and Freya Allan (Ciri's actress) are the same height and age and their appearance is very similar, too. Because of this and an earlier casting call that was looking for a "a student that is brainwashed into believing they’re someone else", Redanian Intelligence assumes "Teryn" is actually a book character named "False Ciri". Without giving too much away, False Ciri is quite an important character in Emperor Emhyr's storyline and her appearance in Season 3 was very probable from the beginning.
Last but not least, Redanian Intelligence also reports on a returning face on the Witcher set: Wolfgang Stegemann, the stunt coordinator and the mastermind behind the famous and beloved Blaviken fight scene back in Season 1 between Geralt and Renfri's gang. The degree of his involvement in coordinating or performing stunts unfortunately is currently not known. But I am sure the fight scenes in Season 3 will definitely benefit from Wolfgang Stegemann's presence.
In other news, Redanian Intelligence posted an interesting look into the Witcher set at Longcross Studios that gave away a curious look on one of Season 3's new locations. While Freya Allan was filming scenes at Swinley Forest near the studios and Henry Cavill spent two weeks filming a fight scene (that he called "nine shades of hell" on social media), the Witcher fan page posted a short video from the Witcher set. In it we can see elven ruins with a statue in the middle. This set could potentially represent the ancient elven palace of Shaerrawedd whose ruins appeared in the book "Blood of Elves" and that had been destroyed by humans in the early history of the Continent. This could mean that Season 3 will still adapt some moments from "Blood of Elves" in some shape or form.
One final interesting question regarding a very important mage was raised by Redanian Intelligence as well in the last two weeks: Could Season 3 expand on a Vilgefortz storyline from the books? We know that actress Clare Holmann auditioned for a character that is a healer. In her casting script another character with magical powers and great ambitions is mentioned. This is very likely Vilgefortz. In the book "Time of Contempt" that is being adapted in season 3 it is hinted at that Vilgefortz conducts horrible experiments on girls. The healer in the audition talks about something quite similar. We could see a version of this book storyline play out in Season 3.
Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!
[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]
“DEAR FRIEND…”: LISTENER CALL-IN SEGMENT
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hi everyone! Welcome to our listener call-in segment, “Dear Friend…”. Keep on listening as members of our international hanza share their thoughts on what we’re discussing in this episode:
CHARLOTTE: Transcript to come.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Thanks to Charlotte for sending in their thoughts on Episode 204 “Redanian Intelligence”! Hear your voice in a future “Dear Friend…” segment by emailing greetings@breakfastinbeauclair.com or DMing the podcast on social for more information.
[Music by MojoFilter Media]
Discussion
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Triss Merigold had arrived at Kaer Morhen.
In the next scene, after their fiery escape from The Brotherhood of Sorcerers, Yennefer and Cahir find themselves in the city of Gors Velen, where elves are being rounded up and carted away in chains. This is a really interesting opening, we still haven't hit the opening slate, and we're not going to for another scene or two, but we come to Yennefer and Cahir in Gors Velen. If you're a fan of the books, you will know Gors Velen from Time of Contempt, and you'll hear more about it there. But we see some of this city, and it's not…great, what we're looking at. Our first introduction to Gors Velen is that we're watching elves being rounded up by the soldiers that are there and they're being humiliated, which is awful to watch as a spectator and so we're kind of seeing what's, what's happening around the continent, we're going to hear more about it in the following scene as well. Along with actually witnessing all of this, we see graffiti on the walls such as, like, "a good elf is a dead elf" which readers will know from like the Blood of Elves Chapter Introduction, also graffiti of a pig with elf ears. So, this is a really, I think, a jarring scene to step into for anybody. Yeah.
EMMA: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I know, this is, this is sort of a, you know, complicated topic. But I do think one of the things about the books and like, the politics of the books, is that they're very complex. And like, the, all the different kingdoms, playing the games is hugely helpful in like, understanding the different kingdoms and like, where everything is, because it, because that just doesn't exist in the books. One thing that I like about what the show has done is kind of simplifying it to a certain extent. So that, you know, in the first season, we pretty much have Nilfgaard and Cintra, and then in this season, we start introducing Redania, and it's a little bit of a simplification, but one of the things that's very interesting that they're dealing with in this season is like racism, and the, the, you know, Nilfgaardians, who we, in the first season, were supposed to see as like the bad guys, they actually have a better relationship maybe, it's a, maybe it's somewhat politically motivated, but they actually have a better relationship with elves. While the North, which is where we were and like Cintra are super super racist against, against elves and to see this scene is pretty upsetting. And, and and as you said I think jarring, but I liked that they're bringing that in more explicitly in the show. Yeah.
DALLAS: Me too, I will say, because with the games, you kind of, there's almost like, I don't want to call it a time jump, but the way that they outline it in the game is once you leave a section, you leave one of these major cities in the game. And then the next time you're brought back there for the plot, the Pogroms have already taken place.
EMMA: Right, yeah.
DALLAS: And there are already people burning on stakes, and you've missed that entire middle section, where things start getting heated and things start getting violent. And I personally from like a, from like a show framing standpoint, especially because we're on episode four. We're like really staunchly right in the middle of this second season, it was the right time to bring it in because if you bring it in too late, it starts feeling like, it starts feeling like just kind of like leftovers, and if you bring it into early people aren't emotionally prepared for that kind of thing.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And The Witcher in general, doesn't shy away from hard topics such as racism.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: So it is, I think, crucial to the world and to the storytelling to be able to boldly look at that and to show it here. It is a very heavy topic, and one that we'll get to explore throughout the rest of the season, and probably throughout future seasons as well. And it's obviously something that affects at least one of our main characters as well, Yennefer.
EMMA: Right.
ALYSSA: You know, speaking of Yennefer and how this will affect her, Yennefer and Cahir are walking through Gors Velen, they have the most inconspicuous coats ever. They're in, just like bright green and bright purple and it's like everybody here is brown and caked in mud. Why are you doing this yourself?
EMMA: I know. I know, but I love it. I love that. That's such a Yennefer move. She would totally do that. She would totally wear this bright purple cloak.
DALLAS: She can't disguise herself anymore.
EMMA: Yeah, I want, I want that cloak. I love it.
ALYSSA: It is very pretty.
EMMA: It's not, it isn’t, it isn't practical. You're correct. But I still love it.
DALLAS: I'm, I’m really interested in how these characters who are, who are kind of almost my least favorite in the game, are very rapidly becoming the most interesting parts of the show.
EMMA: You don't like Yennefer?
DALLAS: Triss is becoming really fast–I mean, I love Yennefer in the game. I have very complex feelings about Yennefer because like–
EMMA: Yeah, I mean, she's–
DALLAS: She's a very complex character.
EMMA: Yeah, absolutely.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: And that's not to say she was my least favorite in either the game or the show, but every scene that she is in is entrancing, for lack of a better word, and I–no pun intended, entrancing. Yeah, you cannot stop watching her when she is on screen and every character that she interacts with, you know, like, especially with this scene, her and Cahir. I like that dynamic.
EMMA: Me too.
DALLAS: They got a, they got a great dynamic going on, like, I would watch that for ages.
ALYSSA: It was wildly unexpected.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: Like as a, as a book reader. I just, it was wildly unexpected. I don't know of any other way of putting that.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: But it was interesting and I settled into the idea–
EMMA: Sure.
ALYSSA: –I think, is the best way I could put it.
EMMA: For me, this was the first real change that the show made that I was like, oh, I am so on board with this, like, bring these two characters together. Maybe, maybe it's because I'm an actor and, as I think you mentioned Dallas, like these two actors have great chemistry.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: Powerhouses.
EMMA: Generally speaking, I liked most of the changes they made with Yennefer's character, because I mean, if the show has done anything, it has fleshed out Yennefer in our, in the canon, which I love. I just love this dynamic between them. And they're like on the run and they're sneaking around and, and they're, you know, coming to terms with one another. They've got very different worldviews and, but they're, there, they're working together. And it's sort of the first hint that we get that Cahir might be more than just, like–
DALLAS: The Emperor's lapdog.
EMMA: Exactly, yeah.
ALYSSA: Right, right.
DALLAS: I think it's also interesting, because I think it's one of those moments where Yennefer kind of forces herself to outthink situations without using magic and I think almost because she's strapped to Cahir.
ALYSSA: Right.
DALLAS: She's not in a position where she's willing or able to talk about the fact that she can't use magic, like, she just has to get out. And she has to use this log to hit somebody on the head and like, there's a conversation for another day, you know?
EMMA: Yeah, yeah.
DALLAS: Cahir doesn't need to know that she's not magical anymore. It's a very interesting moment that she sort of brings there.
EMMA: Right.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And when I think back to like, other shows, for example, like Stranger Things, one of the things that I really loved about let's say, like, season 2 or season 3 was that they brought together characters that we weren't expecting and started to and some of the most interesting scenes and storytelling happened when he brought together unexpected pairings. Haha Pairing. But yeah, so I just, I just don't think I was personally expecting it.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Not to say I didn't like it or not to say that it didn't settle into it.
DALLAS: Oh, yeah.
ALYSSA: But I was just like, "Oh, huh, I wonder where that's gonna go?"
EMMA: Yeah, that's, that's how I felt about a lot of the changes in the second season of the show from the books. But for some reason this one was one that like, just clicked for me right away. And I was like, I love this. I don't know where we're going with this, but I am here for the ride.
DALLAS: I think I'm almost at an advantage because I haven't read anything except the short stories, like I haven't read it yet the longer stuff. So I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's supposed to happen. I have, I got the beginning. I got the short stories, and then I got the game and everything else in the middle is just kind of what happens.
ALYSSA: Right.
EMMA: Absolutely. If you ever feel like it, Dallas, I would recommend going back and reading Blood of Elves just to see how–
DALLAS: I don't want to.
EMMA: –how different it is because it is quite different, and at first when I was watching the show, and they were making all these changes, and I was like, why? And then I went back and thought about the book Blood of Elves. It's a really tricky book because there's no real ending to it.
ALYSSA: No.
EMMA: And there's no like, final big fight or anything. I mean, maybe there is, but it's not like to the extent that we get conflict in the show. And I was like, oh, of course, they had to change things, like you can't, you can't make a season of television like this, and just have like people be talking to each other for, and like traveling on the road for, for you know, eight episodes. So, I, I kind of have come around on, on a lot of the changes that they made.
ALYSSA: At this point, we get a new shot of a bunch of crows or birds coming into the scene right over the city of Gors Velen, and they explode into wanted posters of Cahir and Yen, they pick these up, they look at them on one side it has an illustration of Yennefer that just says “Traitorous Elven Mage, reward 40,000 Orens” and you flip it over, and on the other side it's a picture of Cahir, which just looks like a Nilfgaardian, a Nilfgaardian knight on a horse.
DALLAS: Yeah, looks nothing like him.
EMMA: And now he's got the beard and everything. So, yeah.
ALYSSA: I know. It's just like “Nilfgaardian war criminal”.
DALLAS: They should have just drawn a pair of cheekbones.
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: It's just like “wanted, cheekbone man”.
EMMA: Yeah, yeah.
DALLAS: I love, I think that was such an interesting detail, though. It's like the framing of Yennefer as this traitorous elven mage, which is exactly the try, the thing she tried to use when she was with the elves. So, she's like, "I'm one of you", and they're like, "No, you ain't".
EMMA: Yeah.
DALLAS: Like, you absolutely are not, and we're seeing once again, this this way that Yennefer is getting yanked between two different parts of her identity, both for the negative, like, she's never getting to use any part of her identity for any way that is like in a positive sense.
ALYSSA: Yeah, and that's something that we talked about very briefly in Episode 51 of Breakfast in Beauclair as well, in which like I mentioned, like, as an Asian American, like, it's very interesting to never feel enough of one or the other, Yennefer has this here as well, where she tries to appeal the elves, she tries to appeal to Stregobor and the council, and it just goes poorly at every single side.
EMMA: Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that the show has really brought in, I think, to her identity to her character, because like it's mentioned in the books.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
EMMA: And maybe in the games that she's part elf, but it's never really anything that's interrogated in a very deep way or that seems to affect her.
ALYSSA: No.
EMMA: Maybe it, maybe I'm not remembering correctly. But, but it's something-
DALLAS: I don't think it was a, I think it was only like a written part of her bio in the games as well, like, it was never an active part of the plot.
ALYSSA: No, it wasn't in the books either.
EMMA: Yeah, and and I like that they're bringing that in, and you know, this kind of liminal space that she's in. And, and especially with the choice of having her lose her magic, it's like, well, then who am I? Like, where can I belong? And, and I think that's a really interesting journey for her.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's nice that you mentioned that the difficulty of belonging is layered in those ways were with the addition of the loss of her magic, and then also with not being able to find her place among actual social communities. That's really interesting as well, because I feel like the plot of her elven heritage being an issue, again, not something that we see in the books. So, it's interesting to me that this is now a point of contention, and a very, very, very prominent one in her journey.
DALLAS: Oh my god, I just had a realization. I am so sorry. But there's so much more depth, like, maybe this is just me being, being very slow, but the pet name that Tissaia gives her of piglet.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: And her being part elf, like, it goes, like, so much farther than her having been found in the pigpen. Tissaia knows that she's part elf as well, there's so much more cruelty in that nickname when you think about it from that perspective.
EMMA: Oh, yeah. I never made that connection, yeah.
DALLAS: Especially with the framing of having all the graffiti pigs, and.
ALYSSA: With the pointed ears and yeah.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Interesting.
EMMA: I'd never made that connection.
DALLAS: I don't know if that was intentional or not.
ALYSSA: I had a heart attack for a second when he stopped everything I was like, "Oh no, was he not recording?"
EMMA: Yeah, yeah.
ALYSSA: For an hour?
DALLAS: Oh no, oh god. That'd be terrible, I just, I had one of those galaxy brain moments and I didn't know how to process it.
EMMA: I wonder if that was intentional.
ALYSSA: I have no idea.
EMMA: That to me feels like it was an homage to Yennefer calls Ciri, like, ugly duckling or something, she like calls her-
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's complicated but yes.
EMMA: Yes, yeah, something, something like that. But, but, but I wonder, I wonder if that was intentional.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I think it makes sense for Tissaia to have given a nickname to Yennefer as Yennefer did to Ciri. Like, it makes sense to kind of extrapolate that experience between Yennefer and Ciri and then to give that to Tissaia so we understand more about Yennefer's you know, quote unquote, motherly instincts and how they developed. The posters fly into the sky and Yennefer and Cahir make the executive decision that "Fuck it. Okay, you know what we're gonna go to Cintra."
EMMA: Yep.
ALYSSA: We cut to a new city that we haven't been to before, uh, Tretogor and in Tretogor, King Vizmir of Redania is nearly poisoned but saved by Dijkstra, his advisor and head of their data and Secret Service. Dijkstra proposes taking Cintra from Nilfgaard. King Vizmir Redania is someone that we're familiar with in the books. His son is someone who gamers will be familiar with, and this is such an interesting introduction to King Vizmir, as well as Dijkstra. If you have read the books, or if you've listened to the podcast, you will be familiar with the delightful description of Dijkstra that we have from Blood of Elves. I don't know just anywhere to start, but it's cool to see them here.
EMMA: I was maybe the most excited about the announcement of Graham McTavish as, as Dijkstra because I adore him.
DALLAS: Daddy?
EMMA: Yeah, daddy. And for those of you who don't know, he's, he's in Outlander and he's also a voice in Nightmare of the Wolf.
DALLAS: God, he was wasn't he? Oh, my.
ALYSSA: As Deglan.
EMMA: Yeah, so he's, he's all over the Witcher world. So, Dijkstra is kind of a character that I personally, I feel like probably most people have a very love-hate relationship with, kind of like you love to hate him. In that sense. He's a little bit more complex in the books, but, but, like in the games, he's a big part of The Witcher 3.
DALLAS: He's a big part of the game.
EMMA: So I was really excited to get this introduction to him, and also the owl.
DALLAS: The owl, I was gonna say, isn't really an antagonist if you don't have complicated feelings about him?
EMMA: Yeah, I, I, it's not a good antagonist, if you don't. Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
DALLAS: Yeah.
EMMA: And he and Geralt have a very interesting relationship throughout the books.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
EMMA: So, I hope that we get to see them start interacting at, at some point.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm, I'm very curious to see where Graham McTavish will go with Dijkstra because I think Dijkstra's characterization in the books is so specific. So, I'm curious to see, like, how closely they stick to that or how much they diverge from that characterization.
DALLAS: Especially because I feel like some of the things that Dijkstra does that I know of are like massive catalysts.
ALYSSA: Yes.
DALLAS: For a lot of the upcoming political situations.
ALYSSA: Yeah, Dijkstra is a huge player on the continent.
DALLAS: Yeah.
ALYSSA: 100% and we get such a small taste of that in season two.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: Just because he's just in Tretogor from what I can remember of the season.
DALLAS: Little political hors d'oeuvre.
EMMA: I think he shows up, he, he comes to, he comes to the sorcerers.
ALYSSA: Oh, he briefly stops by Aretuza.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And just, like, makes a couple of like, really veiled threats.
EMMA: Yeah, yeah. That's just sort of his thing. You know? He comes in and he stabs the lady and or, like, slits her throat as she's offering Vizmir. I really like the actor who plays Vizmir.
ALYSSA: Oh, he's so chaotic.
EMMA: Oh, he's so chaotic.
DALLAS: He's so good. I love it. That's the energy I'm trying to bring.
EMMA: Yeah, absolutely.
DALLAS: It's like if Charlie Day was in The Witcher.
EMMA: Yes.
ALYSSA: Like, I love that, you know, these two, these two people are offering him wine or something to drink. He comes in and throws a dagger straight into the back of this woman's head and her neck, and then threatens the other man into drinking, what we discover was, some sort of poisoned drink. Vizmir's reaction in this moment is more exasperated than anything.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: It seems very run of the mill, which I find pretty funny, and like, this scene is a little bit comedic.
EMMA: Yeah, definitely.
DALLAS: Like, like, it's like a six assassination attempt that week or something like, come on guys.
EMMA: And he's like, oh, "I knew him", but like.
DALLAS: "Again?".
ALYSSA: Yeah.
EMMA: Like, yeah, "so tiring, you know?".
DALLAS: I like it, because I feel like since we're already delving into that chaos with Vizmir, especially because we're still seeing him at this very young age, essentially, like he's not this old wizened king. We're seeing him sort of almost cracking underneath the pressure of being a ruler, while also reveling in it at the same time.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah, Vizmir is an interesting character because he's very, like, chaotic is a very, like, loose word for it.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: But he's very flippant about, um, everything?
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: And he's easily manipulated, I think, as we'll see in this season, as well as you know, throughout the seasons to come. And he relies very heavily on Dijkstra as we can see here, you know? This really comes to a point when Dijkstra gives him an update of like, "yeah, the northern kingdoms are coming together to fight the elves, but eh, we shouldn't care about that, because our sights should be elsewhere, our sights should be taking Cintra", and suddenly he has Vizmir's attention, and Dijkstra's plan for this or how he pitches it to his king, is that we never would have taken Cintra under Calanthe, we would have never taken the crown jewel of the North, but if Nilfgaard is there, if the elves are there, we have a justifiable reason in order to take that back and bring it under Redania. As we've talked about Dijkstra is super politically adept, and we can still see how he's shaping Vizmir's aspirations and desires.
DALLAS: Very birth of an empire.
EMMA: Yeah, and again, I like how the show has kind of simplified the politics a little bit. And like, given us these important kingdoms, and these important players within these kingdoms, and now Redania is a new element that we're bringing in now. And Dijkstra is really the lens through which we get that. I like that a lot. Well, we'll talk about some of the choices that they make with him later on in the episode, which I think are just so so wild. But, but yes, I think this is a really, a really cool way to introduce this new kind of political element.
DALLAS: I think this scene in particular, like thinking of that really almost frames the political aspects through a much more human lens, whereas through the game, it was much more of like this happened, and then this happens. Like, it felt much more like a game of chess with pieces rather than seeing, you know, the leader of Redania being so easily manipulated by just a guy.
EMMA: Right.
DALLAS: And seeing, you know, Emhyr, and all of his histories and all that sort of stuff, like, really seeing the kind of the people and the twistedness of them before and after they're dealing with all of their political shit.
EMMA: Yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah, and at this point, we cut to the opening slate, we get the Redanian Intelligence, and we're brought back to Kaer Morhen.
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we get to the rest of the discussion, we’re going to take a break here. Next episode, join me, Dallas Wheatley from the US, and Emma Sherr-Ziarko from the US as we continue our discussion of Netflix's The Witcher 204, “Redanian Intelligence.”
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Father of Bean, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, and Softie.
Special thanks to Dallas and Emma for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: AJ Sarong
Editor: JM Sarong