Ep. 66 — 207 "Voleth Meir" from Netflix's The Witcher (Part 2)
Allison from the US and Bo from the US join Alyssa for our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 207 “Voleth Meir”. Very important bits include: Yennfer’s realization of Ciri’s potential and her change of heart, Vilgefortz’s unnerving personality change, Fingilla’s slow isolation and consequent outburst, using primordial magic for everyday productivity, a TED talk on Deadly Nightshade, Stormchasers: Nilfgaard, and how this episode in particular is an examination of hope.
This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.
In this Episode
[0:00] Cold Open
[0:52] Introduction
[3:49] Discussion
[53:01] Outro & Credits
Relevant Links
Allison’s video on Deadly Nightshade. Nightshade (Solanum) is a genus of around 2300 types of flowering plants. Some include tomatoes, eggplants, potatoes and peppers along with some poisonous plants.
Transcript
Cold Open
ALYSSA: Oh, I make so many hand gestures when I, when I speak. This is what people miss in the podcast, right now I have like–
BO: You trying to, you trying to scritch their ears? Their little elven baby ears?
ALYSSA: I just have two little pointer fingers just kind of, like, wiggling back and forth because these are little elven ears, of course. Obviously.
ALLISON: I love it.
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
Introduction
ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.
[Meetups & Events]
Thanks to everyone who stopped by the London meet up and this years Hanzaween party! We had so many great closet cosplays—see everyone’s costumes on the Breakfast in Beauclair Twitter and Instagram and take a guest yourself as who everyone came as. If you’d like to host a local hanza meetup like the London one, reach out to the community at bit.ly/thehanzadiscord.
[Guest Spot: But Make It Scary]
Last year, I was a guest on an incredibly fun podcast called But Make It Scary, the show which turns classic rom coms into horror films. Previously, I turned A Cinderella Story with Hillary Duff into a Norse monster horror flick. This time, join me and host Sequoia as we make the classic film Princess Diaries 2 scary. Find the show on your podcast service of choice at But Make It Scary or embedded on the “Appearances” section of the Breakfast in Beauclair website with all of my other guest spots from The Newest Olympian, The StoryTinker, On the Path, Meddling Adults, and No Bad Ideas.
[Patron Announcements]
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[Episode Details]
As for this episode, Allison from the US and Bo from the US wrap our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher Episode 207 “Voleth Meir”. Join us as we discuss Yennfer’s realization of Ciri’s potential and her change of heart, Vilgefortz’s unnerving personality change, Fingilla’s slow isolation and consequent outburst, using primordial magic for everyday productivity, a TED talk on Deadly Nightshade, Stormchasers: Nilfgaard, and how this episode in particular is an examination of hope.
Visit the episode page on breakfastinbeauclair.com to find the educational video on deadly nightshade that Allison references in the discussion.
It’s been quiet on the news front since TUDUM, so no “Tidings from Toussaint” this week. But we’ll hear from Lars soon as we head toward Blood Origin, which is officially less than two months away!
Without further ado, let’s get to our discussion of Netflix’s The Witcher 207 “Voleth Meir” (Part 2).
Discussion
[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, Geralt had broken Jaskier out of jail in order to search for Yennefer and Ciri. Meanwhile, the elven baby’s arrival in Cintra pushes Fringilla to the sidelines and stirs the Brotherhood of sorcerers in the north.
You know, as we keep going, Yennefer instructs Ciri on how to use her chaos to get them to the other side of a river. So Ciri attempts to use magic to fix the bridge and, like, levitate it and put it back together again. And she starts crying blood.
ALLISON: Oh, yeah.
ALYSSA: And when she fails, she—you know, lets out a scream, and suddenly they're transported with the horses to the other side of the river. And again, Yennefer is realizing the magnitude of Ciri’s potential.
ALLISON: Yeah. I just love how, at least, Ciri in this season and last season, like, how she uses her power. She just screams and I find that, like, funny in some senses.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ALLISON: Because like episode eight, she just, like, screams and like, oh my gosh.
ALYSSA: It's like um, Ember Island players Toph in Avatar The Last Airbender. Are you guys familiar?
BO: Uhh. Yeah.
ALYSSA: It's just, this giant rock-like man, just being like, “I use echolocation. AHHHHHHHHHHH.”
BO: Forgot all about that.
ALYSSA: It's so good. I mean, imagine how much stuff I could get done if anytime I was frustrated, I screamed, and then it was done. What a superpower!
BO: Life would be so simple.
ALLISON: And she was able to transport, like, the horses over also. So I'm like, whoa, that's impressive. Not just like Yennefer and Ciri. But also the horses who were just like eating grass in the background, not even, like, disturbed or they don't even know that something happened.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, that's true. Particular horses seem very oblivious to everything that goes on around them.
BO: Yeah. They saw their masters get disintegrated. They're just like whatever.
ALLISON: Teleporting, you know.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's uh, it's very on-brand. Oh man. I guess the one thing there, there's like a quote here from Yennefer that I quite like, the idea that you can either be too strong to fail or too weak to try. I think Yennefer is, especially in the book, she's like a woman of tough love. That quote particularly feels in line with that character and that mentality.
ALLISON: At least in the, like, show, Ciri's power is, like, developing quite fast. I remember the book series, it was like Ciri was having the hardest time, like, moving…I don't know.
ALYSSA: A bucket.
ALLISON: Yeah. Also, like her bloody tears. Oh, my gosh. Oh, jeez that's unfortunate.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Terrifying.
ALYSSA: It is interesting that they come out of all four corners, rather than just one. I was confused by that. But you know, hey, details, throw ‘em under the bridge.
BO: That's actually a really good point. Ciri's got four tear ducts.
ALYSSA: Yeah. Like, as you said, it's interesting that her powers are developing so much more quickly. Like it feels like she's kind of speed running, like, intro to magic 101. I wonder if that's because the stakes are higher, or if it's obviously convenience of the plot and of the eight-episode structure? Or if it's because, like, she's older. It does seem she went from, like, having completely uncontrollable powers, to having semi-controlled powers. In a very, very short period of time.
BO: Yeah, it'll be a line, I think the show has to tread carefully in that sense because once you do something with a character's power level, you can't go back at that point without having to try and sort of create this, this plotline around as to why they are depowered all of a sudden.
ALYSSA: I mean, we do see that with the Yennefer’s storyline, to be fair.
BO: True.
ALYSSA: Like, she does spend her entire season depowered. By the end of this scene, Yennefer is starting to realize, as I said, Ciri's actual potential. And she's going to continue to mull over that for the rest of the episode. In the next scene, Triss and Tissaia discuss what Triss had witnessed at Kaer Morhen, but are interrupted by Vilgefortz who demands information about the girl. Triss leaves feeling betrayed by Tissaia. This scene goes from like 0 to 100. It starts off with Triss standing at a windowsill. She's glad to be home at Aretuza. She looks super relaxed, Tissaia comes up behind her, you know, her hair is back up and everything. They're reminiscing about their time in Aretuza, and how gentle Triss has always been, even as a child. Things get, like, weird because Tissaia starts asking about Ciri, still kind of gently probing. And then Vilgefortz immediately, like, comes in, his robe, like, billowing behind him. And he's like, tell me about the girl, tell me everything. Of course, Triss, who believed that this was in confidence, is just heartbroken. And then the tenderness, I think that we saw in Tissaia and Vilgefortz’s first scene does a complete 180. He completely blows up at her, it's genuinely terrifying to watch. The same kind of power dynamic that we see with Cahir and Fringilla, where Fringilla just starts to feel very small and very powerless in comparison, we see that here with Tissaia and Vilgefortz as well. Which has its own terror to it, because Tissaia is a character that we've seen and viewed with a lot of respect throughout the last two seasons. So to see her reduced in Vilgefortz's presence, it's genuinely terrifying because we know what she's capable of. And we know that she's a very like composed and stirred woman. And then things get super gross and super toxic. Because after yelling at her, she goes to leave and he immediately love bombs her. He's just like, you know, I love you. You're my partner. We need to do this together. I'm so sorry. She has tears in her eyes. And it's just, it gives me the heebie-jeebies.
ALISSON: Yeah, red flag as we put in our notes.
ALYSSA: I hate it. I hate it so much.
ALLISON: Yeah. Poor Tissaia, she was, like, just trying to help out Triss and it just, like, turned around on her and…aw, jeez. Sad.
BO: Because enough scenes go by you go, oh, this guy is…he's pretty nice. You know, he's pleasant to be around. And then he explodes and he has these outbursts and it reminds you like oh, no, he's most definitely insane. Every scene that conveys that, I think, is wonderful. And Mahesh is just so amazing. His—that explosion, like you said it's, it's terrifying. And he's so commanding in this, in this scene and so manipulative as well. He knows exactly how to push your buttons. And it's yeah, it's horrifying.
ALYSSA: Man. I'm sure we'll get to see their relationship continue over the next season or two. Like if this is any preview of what we're gonna get…ugh. It's gonna be rough. It's gonna be so rough. In the next scene, Fringilla turns to her uncle Artorius for help, but he rebuffs her. TL;DR of their argument. She's like, I need to impress the Emperor. And he's like, oh, but you're the enemy. And she's like, yes, but I'm family. And he's like, lol, tough shit. That's basically the conversation that happens, which is heartbreaking for a number of reasons. One of the first being that, like, Artorius doesn't really seem to care about his niece, which is unfortunate in and of itself. We know he has aspirations within the Brotherhood, he has commitments to the Northern Kingdoms and his niece doesn't take precedence over that. The second reason why I find this really heartbreaking, is that Fringilla attempts to use the same argument that Francesca said to her, she's like, but we're family, blood is all we have. And he really doesn't care. He goes even further to say that she should apologize in order for him to help her. She asks “For aligning with Nilfgaard? Of course.” And he says “No, for believing that you could have any impact there at all, my dear.” There are those who are obsessed with finding power, and those who know their place. You know which one you are, thank gods. You wouldn't have come back here if you didn't.” If we follow Yennefer's timeline, Yennefer spent decades in Aedirn, presumably Fringilla’s been in Nilfgaard that whole time. So it's easily been somewhere between like 50 and 100 years that Fringilla has been, you know, attempting to build Nilfgaard. We can see how she's being pushed away and isolated by everybody, by Francesca, by the Generals, and the Nilfgaardian command by her own uncle, we'll see what she does in that desperation and isolation.
BO: Yeah. I love when, when shows or books or—I mean anything, when they take a character that they've established as powerful and intimidating and put them in a very vulnerable spot. This kind of harkens back to the conversation that we were just having about Tissaia and Vilgefortz as well, because it's a similar dynamic here, can see how harshly his words affect her. It's a beautiful kind of melancholic place to put a character. And I love it, it always adds so much depth to them. And I thought this scene in particular really highlighted that well. Especially, I mean, with family. That is, that's always going to be an interesting relationship dynamic, especially when the stakes are as high as they are, in the case of this show. And with Tissaia, it's a lover, those kind of relationships, the push and pull of it. It's fascinating to watch on screen.
ALYSSA: Absolutely. And I think it circles back around to the idea of like everyone having their own independent goals and their aspirations, and how much bigger the world feels for it. In the next scene, Dara expresses his change of heart to the owl in the cell. He no longer cares about Redania or Cintra, he wants to focus on keeping Elven hope alive and declares he will stop spying for Redania. Yeah.
ALLISON: Yeah. I thought it was like a nice moment. He, like, feels happy and content actually. Because like in the first season, he kind of felt alone and he was like, the only elf, and he was with Ciri. It's really nice to see you, but unfortunately, probably won't turn out well, but it's nice to see Dara happy and like, make decisions for, like, himself.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ALLISON: When they recruited him to be a spy for Redania, that was not his choice, that was, like, to get out of jail. And so now he's, like, I need to make decisions for myself because I feel confident in myself.
BO: Yeah, he's always just been a pawn.
ALLISON: Mhmm.
ALYSSA: And it feels like for the entire time we've known Dara, he really hasn't had any, like, agency or independence, because he was on the run with Ciri, hiding his identity. He was a Redanian spy for a hot second. And this is the first time he's really saying like, no, I don't want to do this. I guess unless you count when he, like, killed the Doppler and he's like lol bye Ciri. I don't want to do this.
BO: See ya.
ALYSSA: So this is the second time he's asserting himself in the series. It feels like he gets like one little slip each season now. We'll see if he uses, like, a no-card in season three. But it's nice. I'm happy for him. He's thriving. He's doing great. I am nervous about where his character is gonna go. Because it is a character that I quite like.
BO: Yeah. And characters that are original to the show, are— they bring a different energy to it. And there is that mystery into, you know, like book characters, you kind of generally know, even if it's done in a slightly different way. It's like okay, I kind of know that the way this is going but, but show original characters it—it's, it can be whatever.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: You know, so yeah, I'm curious to see what they do with him.
ALYSSA: Yeah, I mean, I already laid out my entire theory about Dara in episode 203, What Is Lost, with Kyle and Elora. And even though I was horribly, horribly wrong this season, this is like me planting my stake in the ground again.
BO: Second time's the charm.
ALYSSA: I know, we'll see. I still think that Ciri and Dara will reunite long enough for Dara to die.
BO: How do you think he'll go out?
ALYSSA: Oh, as part of the Scoia'tael, like 100%, he's so gonna join the Scoia'tael and he's gonna either come up against Ciri or something like that and then he's gonna die. I think it's still going to be very similar to Shaerrawedd in chapter four of Blood of Elves, which we've spoken about in the podcast, so it's free reign here. That's my one prediction about Dara in general. I do think he's Scoia'tael and he’ll be around long enough to die in front of Ciri or something. I could be horribly wrong.
BO: We'll check back on that in, in about a year.
ALLISON: See how that goes.
ALYSSA: I know, I'm like, give it, give it like a year. Two years. Three years.
BO: Year or two? Yeah.
ALYSSA: I'm gonna not even know what episode to reference. “Remember that time I talked to Bo and Allison like six years ago? It paid off.”
BO: Oh, we’ll remind you, we won’t let you live this down.
ALYSSA: On the subject of death and destruction for everybody. In the next scene, under the watchful wrath of Voleth Meir, Fringilla kills the Nilfgaardian generals one by one, leaving Cahir alive. I—okay. I will admit, I still have never watched this scene.
BO: Really?
ALYSSA: Oh I'm so squeamish. As soon as I caught a glimpse of a knife going into an eyeball, I was like, I'm not, I'm not fuc—I'm not watching—
BO: That was hardcore.
ALYSSA: I listen. I've listened to this scene.
BO: Oh is it? Even—Is that any better?
ALYSSA: Well, because you hear the little squelchy squelchy of the eyeballs and it’s uh– it's not great.
BO: I think it's not great either. No.
ALYSSA: Yeah, but it's—you know, I got the gist. So the generals are having some meal. It's so dark outside, it could be any time of day. They're kind of having a bit of a chit-chat. The main general is still trying to convince Cahir, “you know, we should kill her, and if we don't kill her, the emperor will kill her. I'd be surprised if she still had her head on by tomorrow. Ha ha.” And then they all immediately, like, freeze. And then Fringilla has, like, her monologuing villain moment. “I had such contempt for my education in Aretuza, but they taught me, of all things, botany and the paralytic qualities of nightshade.” And then she kind of launches into, like, her motivations for killing off all the generals and then kind of kills them all one by one, as they're all paralyzed, with the exception of the dog that's taking advantage of the situation to eat. But by the end of this, you know, she gets to Cahir. “Emhyr needs to hear of the treachery I just uncovered. And he needs the general that he trusts most to tell him I was justified. So when he arrives tomorrow, rave.” I'm getting chills in my little brain just thinking about it.
BO: Likewise, yeah.
ALYSSA: It's very haunting and very well done, and the whole time in the background you're kind of hearing like this demonic laugh of Voleth Meir. “Yes. Yes. Feed your pain, feed your desperation.” We’ll continually come to this idea, I think and then in the following scenes you know, people do crazy out of character things when they feel like they've been cornered. And I think with the isolation that we've seen for Fringilla specifically throughout this episode. Yeah, this is a little over the top, but like we understand why it's happening. Because she, she's so desperate.
ALLISON: Yeah. She does just, like, an amazing job in the scene, and well I like— when I was, like, watching the episode, I watched that scene quite a few times. They did a really good job with that aspect. And at the end when she, like, says rave I'm like, oh my gosh, we haven't seen this side of Fringilla. Like you said, it’s just like chills. But she just—that actress did an amazing job in that aspect.
BO: You know, this is, this is the moment where she feels so cornered that she has to make the most extreme power move she can. I was like you Allison, I rewound it the first time I watched it too. Because it was just like, wow, that was— that was so well done and just a chill-inducing scene. And I was sort of trying to take note of the—the sound design that was phenomenal which is criminally an underrated element of shows and movies and games, everything. And to see it just cut to this complete eerie silence and then this just long stringing sour note of I don't know what it is exactly, but it's—it's awful.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: And it's just this—this like this perfect building of tension and then yeah, like you said, Alyssa, the cackling—cackling of the Deathless Mother and the whole – just— she's raving in this right now right. She's having the best night of her life watching this.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And then we have, like, squelchyeyeball.mp4.
ALLISON: Oh, yeah, yeah.
ALYSSA: Just like— uhh the heck.
BO: Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to be a part of the whole making of that scene.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Like it had to have been fascinating.
ALLISON: Yeah. And like when Fringila was like, stabbing the general’s eyes like—
BO: Uhh.
ALLISON: I don't know if you guys remember from the game, when Gaunter O’Dimm, like, freezes time and he, like, sticks like a wooden spoon in someone's eye. I was like, oh my gosh, this is kind of an easter egg potentially. But um, both of those scenes from the game and show. It's like you cover your eye as you're watching that, or I guess, in Alyssa's case, hearing that.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, it's super interesting because a lot of conversations have been had about how comparable the Deathless Mother feels to Gaunter O'Dimm. So it is really interesting to see that the games have impacted the show, and that, like, there's a lot of exploration and play between these two pieces of media, which I think is super fun.
BO: Absolutely. That's a—that's a great call. There is a lot of parallels between those two scenes. I think just in the atmosphere they create as well. Because in The Witcher 3, that scene with Gaunter, it's still burned into my mind. It is, it's chilling and it–yeah, exactly. I love that, if it was intentional that they're sort of calling back to it, but any like, either way just—if you want to freak your audience out, have a paralyzed person and just slowly stick a needle into someone's eye.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: It's awful
ALYSSA: So grim.
ALLISON: Uhh. Definitely don't want to die that way. That's like on the list of like 100 ways that I do not want to die.
BO: Yeah.
ALLISON: I don't need a blunt spoon to the brain.
ALYSSA: Totally fine.
BO: A blunt spoon would be even worse, wouldn't it?
ALLISON: That's hard. Ooh, I'd rather have a knife, that's like something sharp which just makes it better but also, like, not much better. I mean, you're just getting stabbed in the eye regardless, but ooh.
ALYSSA: On that happy note, Allison, you also had like a couple of notes here on Nightshade. Do you want to chat about that as well?
ALLISON: Yeah, this is kind of my nerd within a nerd moment I guess. So at least like Nightshade. So Nightshade is actually like a Genus of flowering plants. So like I think the Latin name is like, if I pronounced it right, Solanum, something like that. And in this, like, Genus there's like 2300 types of flowering plants actually. So Nightshade is a, like, very big and wide, kind of class of plants, and includes plants that we commonly eat. Like tomatoes, eggplants, potatoes, and peppers, but it also includes some poisonous plants, so that's probably what they were trying to, like, get at in the show. I found this really fun video that just does a really great job talking about like the one that they're probably referring to in the show called Deadly Nightshade, also called the, like, scientific name Atropa belladonna. And this plant actually, like, produces these, like, really dark shiny, like sweet fruit and are extremely poisonous. Like, if you eat a few, you can, like, die. And when I was doing research, I thought this was, like, the coolest thing. It was named after like one of the Fates, which I didn't know what the Fates were like, which were like the trio Goddess, that kind of do the weaving of like, say individual's lives to like, determine their destiny, and one of the Fates is called… what was it…Atropos. So she's the one that actually cuts the thread. So if you think about, like, cutting the thread, cutting the thread of life, I thought that was, like, brilliant. Honestly, I was like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. Like people actually did a good job naming them, like, a scientific plant. So sometimes when they're naming scientific plants, or like just random science names, it's like that makes no sense at all. Where did you come up with this? But this is one instance where they did a good job. They did their research.
ALYSSA: Yeah. I mean, I feel like we got a hint of that even in like Blood of Elves, chapter five when Geralt goes to name like the zeugl in the mud or whatever.
ALLISON: Oh, yeah. Yeah. At least for this, like, agent. So it's called, like Belladonna, which it's been used historically, you know, as potentially, like, kill someone and other ones, which was like, really fascinating, which I remember learning about it, like a class in my undergrad, was like, women used it like a diluted version of the berry, and they would drop them in their eye. And it would actually, like, make their pupils like, really big and so—
ALYSSA: Why?
ALLISON: Because apparently, that was what was attractive back then, having just like—
ALYSSA: Oh no.
ALLISON: I know. I'm so glad we don't have that fashion today.
BO: Can you imagine?
ALYSSA: Oh no. Yeah. I mean, between that and licking lead bars, I think we're doing a little bit.
ALLISON: Thank God. So that's kind of where it has come, but when I was trying to look at at least the effects of Belladonna, if you ingest enough and, like, in high enough concentrations, it has this like active ingredient called tropane alkaloids and this can cause like various side effects. Like blurry vision, dried mouth, and on the more extreme side, like fast heart rate, disorientation, delirium, and then eventually respiratory depression, which can lead to death. So that's how, like, they probably use it to kill people. If they—so that was really interesting. And, fun fact, here's my pharmacy background, like, they've—they're actually, like, still use these components in medical drugs today. So there's like Atropine, which I don't know if they use it like entirely today, but it's like eyedrops locally to the eye. So it only, like, affects the eye thankfully, causes the pupil to dilate, so then ophthalmologists can, like, see what's actually in the back of the eye. And then there's this Scopolamine — it's called Scopolamine which, I don't know if you guys have heard of them, they're like these little patches you can put behind your ear to help with nausea and vomiting.
ALYSSA: Oh.
BO: Oh yeah.
ALLISON: Yeah. So that's another kind of Nightshade fun fact. But overall, Nitrate doesn't cause paralysis, but it can kill you so, like, this is something that I was critiquing in the show. But like, at least they mentioned something kind of fun, so.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so interesting.
ALLISON: Yeah, sorry long rant. I just—this is my other thing when I get into like little, like, deep dives into all these scientific things, it's—it's hard to get out.
ALYSSA: Oh, no, no need to apologize. I feel like that's what Breakfast in Beauclair is. It’s just a lot of people nerding out about a lot of different facets of the same exact thing.
ALLISON: Exactly.
ALYSSA: Which is what makes it fun.
BO: I found that completely fascinating and that video that Allison recommended was called “Deadly Nightshade has the deadliest berries on Earth”. And it's by a channel called Animal Logic. So if any of you out there are interested in checking that out, it is a fascinating video. And the part that—that made me laugh, was the fact that if—the—you know bees can— can go up to these berries and take them in and then when they produce honey, the honey is ever so slightly toxic. Like this, the remnants of this berry are carried to the bee and I just love that. Like everything about this plant is—is fascinating to me, and I never would have—would have known that without you Allison, so thank you.
ALLISON: Yeah, it's—it's so fun like learning about just like all these things, especially with pharmacology. A bunch of the medications that are kind of known today originated from plants, and animals. It's—it's really fun to, like, learn about and—but they are like coming up with new different drugs from like—that don't originate from plants and animals. But this is one instance where they used a plant for therapeutic purposes and patients, so.
ALYSSA: Oh, that's so interesting. Well, yeah, thank you so much for pulling that and for sharing it, and thank you so much for dropping the link. Because I'll pop it into the show notes. So if you listeners at home go to breakfast in beauclair.com/listen/episode-you know whatever this episode number is. You'll—you'll be able to find the link to Allison's video there as well. In the next scene, Dijkstra strategizes Redania’s next move with Vizimir. Again, Vizimir and Dijkstra, super fun together. As you know, high chaos as Vizimir is, Dijkstra tells him, eh we lost a spy, whatever. I already got the scoop on everything that's going on the continent, so we gucci. He confirms with Vizimir that their plan to take Cintra is still a possibility. So let's do that. That's basically like what happens in this scene.
ALLISON: Yeah, and then we have the owl just chilling there. And like I noticed when Vizimir was, like, talking to Dijkstra, and Vizimir is like, oh yeah, when you went to Aretuza. I don't know if it was just me, but like the owl-like turn, its head, and I was wondering if the owl's—oh my gosh, you went to Aretuza? I did not know about this. So.
ALYSSA: I'm sure that was intentional.
BO: Vizimir is just a little shit, isn’t he?
ALLISON: A worm.
ALYSSA: Number five.
BO: He's just like, he's just like the quintessential awfu, yeah, awful king, that just probably inherited the throne. And Dijkstra is just loving every bit of it. Like that is the perfect, perfect toy to manipulate.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Right? Because he doesn't—he has no idea, and this scene kind of demonstrates, like Vizimir has no idea what's going on in the political landscape. He doesn't care, because he has Dijkstra and Dijkstra is just sitting back like, yep, I'll take care of it all.
ALYSSA: But it's not like he's unaware that that's their dynamic though.
BO: Right.
ALYSSA: Because I think this Vizimir even says at some point, like, yeah, you're gonna make bets, but you're gonna make bets with my money. So he knows exactly what—well, he knows the gist of what Dijkstra is up to, and he knows that he's bankrolling everything and that this is all in the glory of Redania, whatever. But I think you're right. He just seems very flippant about everything. And it's just—everything is happening to and around him, it feels like.
BO: But you are right. He does recognize that this is a two-way street, in regards to this relationship. Yeah, Vizimir has something to offer that Dijkstra very much needs.
ALYSSA: Yeah, this is definitely not the last we'll see of them either. Especially as, like, things start to ramp up on the continent in general, in regard to politics and the outbreaking war. As we continue, Jaskier and Geralt discuss the witcher's relationship with Ciri and Yennefer. So this is like a very small interlude, before we kind of get to the chaos of the close of this episode. Geralt is of course on horseback, and Jaskier is walking as per usual. Jaskier is kind of drilling into Geralt about like, why does this matter so much? Who is this girl? What is Yennefer? What's going on with her? The—two things that stuck out to me in this, in this scene were Geralt, saying I thought ignoring Ciri's existence would make everything better, I was wrong. So we see that not only has she acknowledged his presence in her life, but he does the same. Jaskier continues the conversation about Yennefer. And Geralt is very certain that, like, Yennefer has betrayed him and that everything has gone to pieces. But Jaskier wants to bring the— the humanity back. He spent time with her in Oxenfurt. He's intimately familiar with the situation that she's been in for, you know, the last few months. And he says, “what if she's changed too? People do stupid things when they think they're trapped in a corner, Geralt.” Which is, I think, one of the big themes that we'll see throughout this episode. And—
BO: Yeah.
ALYSSA: The following.
ALLISON: Yeah, that was a really great quote that you put in there. And I really resonated with that, especially with like, Jaskier saying, like, people do stupid things when they're in—when they have like no other option. And you see that with, like, Fringilla, you see that with Yennefer in this case, where he's referring to, so. And it's very applicable to life in just, like, general, so.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ALLISON: Words of wisdom, you know. Jaskier, hats off to you.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And I think even like, just in his own experience, like Geralt leaving Jaskier at the top of a mountain is probably what he's referring to, too. I think, is–their conversation has multiple layers. And I think it's like him being, you know, semi-compassionate toward Geralt and Geralt's frustration at the end of episode 106.
BO: Yeah, I could listen to Geralt and Jaskier have a philosophical debate all night long. Like, I just want a scene with them around a campfire, just talking about this kind of stuff.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Because I feel like–
ALYSSA: Drop that ASMR takes.
BO: Oh man.
ALYSSA: Crackly campfire, bug track number 6.
ALLISON: Oh yes.
ALYSSA: Binaural whispers on either side.
ALLISON: I love it.
BO: Oh, I'd be the first in line for that. I really would.
ALYSSA: Netflix, make it happen.
ALLISON: Yeah.
BO: Netflix, maybe?
ALLISON: But like, Bo, you were, like, talking about how, like, yeah, it'd be great to see, like, a conversation, but I know, like, comparing to, like, book Jaskier and Geralt. They have, like, really deep long talks. And then like in the show, it's like Geralt, just mainly, like, says a few words and grunts here and there. It's a very different, like, dynamic. And if people have read the books, it's like, okay, you really know what their history is. And it's like, ugh. But in the series, yeah, Geralt, we all know who he is, he's just very quiet. Few—speaks very few words. And of course, Jaskier is like, whoa, stop talking. I thought that was hilarious.
BO: Yeah, it does make me wonder if the character that they've built up for Geralt in the show is sort of become…pretty universally loved by most people. And it's become a meme at this point, you know, that memes and the grunts and the fucks and all that. It does make me wonder if, at this point, it would be kind of weird for Geralt to start having a long philosophical debate with someone, right? It's like, it'd be kind of a surprise, I think, for his character at this point, and be like, oh, he's— he's capable of that. Like, there's a—there's, there's clearly a thinking brain in that—in that head of is. But I love anytime, it's just like little nuggets that he drops out there that—he's very self-aware. But he doesn't like to let that be known.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's really interesting, obviously, like having a—having an actor that's so invested in the, in the perception of his character and in building the character within the world. So I'm—I'm interested to see, like, where Henry Cavill and the team are going to continue to take Geralt, and how much he's going to grow. Because it's so interesting in the books, like he does…grow, but I don't know, like it does, it just feels like he grows but in, like, a very lateral way. Whereas I feel like Ciri you know, she—it's her coming of age story, really. So she grows in a much more dynamic way. Whereas Geralt, it's kind of like, he's isolated, and then he finds friends. So, but I feel like a lot of his core personality doesn't necessarily change. So it's very interesting and I'm curious to see, without pages of his internal monologue, how they're going to be able to grow his character on screen.
BO: Absolutely. A character like Geralt is, is a difficult one to convey in a show like this. Because he is so internal and so much is going on inside of his head, that he can come off as like wow. Okay, then that's all you have to say, huh, okay.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Off with you then you know, just like— just like Jaskier says, like fine. Okay. Yeah. And in the books it's a very—It seems like a subtle character arc.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: For him, whereas —whereas Ciri is sort of the main focal point and she has the more obvious character growth and the coming of age story. So yeah, it feels like they're tweaking that a little bit, but I'm interested to see it, it's kind of an in— an interesting direction. I'm excited to see Geralt. Always excited to see more of Geralt.
ALYSSA: And at this point, we circle back around to Ciri and Yennefer. From a brief touch, Ciri learns of Yennefer's betrayal. The pair is attacked by Nilfgaardian soldiers, but are saved by Geralt, Yarpen, and his crew. To be honest, I don't really know how this scene is work source justified, in terms of like the magic that happens, and the supernatural things that happen in it. But at this point, Ciri and Yennefer are now close enough to Cintra that they can, you know, clearly see it’s skyline, they can see the crevice, and the monolith that was there, and the cavern that Istredd and Geralt found themselves in a few episodes previously. But as they're kind of walking toward this, they're getting closer to the door that the Deathless Mother asked, asked Yennefer to bring Ciri to. And Yennefer at this point has a change of heart. She's like, wait, no, we can't go there. She reveals that Geralt isn't actually there, or is unlikely to be there. At some point, Ciri and Yennefer touch and then there's this whole kind of like wubb wubb and like the edges of the screen go purple. And suddenly they're like reading each other's minds. And the dialogue from the scene is pulled almost directly from the books, from a dream sequence that I'm fairly certain we've talked about in the podcast before, in which Ciri is in her dreams, and she sees Yennefer and Ciri tells Yennefer like we can't open that door, you know that and Yennefer is like it's too late for me, but it's not too late for you to turn back. In the books, that feels so much more abstract and elusive. Like it does feel like it refers to magic, it feels like it refers to a number of possibilities within Ciri's world and her potential. But here it feels very specific, which I—which I find to be an interesting adaptation and use for the monologue. Because suddenly, the door is a literal door. It's the door that the Deathless Mother wants to open, the door to, like, a thousand worlds, whatever. It was unexpected. I'm always delighted and surprised whenever they pull dialogue directly from the books. But this was an application that, like, I couldn't have predicted, I think.
BO: Absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting when they can take a paragraph from the books and, like you said, sort of twist it and keep the same words, but it has a completely different meaning now. And sometimes that's lost in adaptations, and sometimes it's captured pretty well. And I think— this whole scene when when Ciri touches Yennefer, and they enter into the into the wubb wubb, it reminded me of like, I don't know if you guys are familiar, but like an old Oblivion, Elder Scrolls conversation, where the camera would just zoom super close into the front of their face, and they would, you know, they would have this conversation and this sort of back and forth between Ciri and Yennefer was—was kind of making me laugh, but interesting. I'd be curious to know if that was completely coincidental on Ciri's part, or if she had an inkling or a drawing to reach out and actually grasp Yennefer's arm, if she felt compelled by the magic or if that was just something she had no idea she could do in the first place.
ALYSSA: Yeah, telepathy is something that they're capable of in Blood of Elves chapter seven. And that, you know, Ciri, like, touches their temples.
BO: Like an 80s action movie.
ALYSSA: Like Professor X.
BO: Oh, yeah.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And she’s just like “my mistress is calling me, Jarre, bye!” She just kind of, like, runs away. Again, like, I don't know, like it's—it's obviously a skill that they have in the books that we, again, haven't explored because Ciri is speed-running Chaos 101. Yes. It's curious. Like I think it's one of those things where like, you can't tell who's initiating it. Like if Ciri did by touching her or if the fact that both of them are, like–inherently have chaos and then they like touch, and then it's like a minor explosion. Yeah, it's completely inexplicable in the context of the plot.
BO: But they just roll with it. They're like, oh, sweet. I guess we're—we're at a— we're in a phone call now. Let's resolve our issues.
ALYSSA: What's a phone call? This is the worst Zoom meeting ever.
BO: Very, very advanced form of magic. Yeah.
ALLISON: I remember when Yennefer and Ciri were, like, actually talking about, like, you know, with their minds. Yennefer was talking to Ciri about, like, magic and, like, how she should be, like, so grateful for it. And she almost goes off about, like, how it's a love relation—love, like, hate relationship with her and magic. Because she's, like, magic is like a spiked arrow. But it's also like bliss at the same time. And then Yennefer also goes on and says, like, it's all you'll ever need. It's everything. So I thought that was, like, very interesting, especially, like, Yennefer how—now that she doesn't have, like, magic currently or her chaos. like she understands how much she misses it. But also, like, I thought it was interesting how she's like, this is the only thing you'll ever need in your life. And I'm like, ooh, is it— is magic, always that— like one thing you need in your life. So I was like ehh.
ALYSSA: Given where they are in their journeys, how different their perception is. Yennefer used magic to, like, pull her out of—out of poverty, pull her out of, like, a literal pigsty and into like the upper echelons of society. And Ciri kind of puts this very succinctly, and she tells Yennefer “you control the chaos, but it controls me.” The magic that she carries, this burden that she carries has been nothing but destruction for two whole seasons. Given how desperate Yennefer is, and how powerful she feels with magic. It feels like she just can't understand why Ciri wouldn't want it.
BO: The shifting perspective Yennefer has on Ciri as well, and— and the use of her, of her chaos magic and the— I guess at this point in time, the jealousy, Yennefer has of Ciri, seeing her do these amazing things with practically no training, utilizing that chaos. You can see, I think behind Yennefer's eyes, a little bit of that longing. And like, God damn you. Why can you do this, I can't right now, like this isn't fair.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: Probably bringing back a lot of interesting internal conflicts to her time spent at Aretuza, as well as watching others complete magical tasks and feats that she physically couldn't anymore.
ALYSSA: Yeah. And I think that contention as we dig into, toward the end of the season, as well between Yennefer's jealousy, whether or not you know, it's— it's intentional and whether or not it's subconscious, versus Ciri's fear and Ciri's potential, and Ciri's mistrust, by the end of the season. It's gonna be really interesting to explore their relationship in season three, because of course, in the books and the games, we know that they become like a family unit with Geralt. How are we going to mend that bond? And how are we going to grow? It is like a really big question that we're going to have going into the next season.
BO: Yeah, some pretty deep wounds were cut in this episode in particular and throughout this, this, this season, I think so. The characters will absolutely need time to heal and regrow together, but they might come back twice as strong. Because they've been through this.
ALYSSA: Ehhh I don't know. We'll see.
BO: We'll see it.
ALYSSA: I know. I mean, by the end of the scene, Ciri realizes that Yennefer was about to betray her. She learns about the Deathless Mother and all that stuff just from like a little boop.
BO: Let me, let me wubb wobb you.
ALLISON: Oh, wubb wubb.
ALYSSA: Just a little wubb wubb bpp[. And then she causes this, like, earthquake in Cintra. All of the Nilfgaardian soldiers are on edge, they, you know, gallop out into the source of the earthquake, which always seems like the logical thing to do. Yeah I know, like go chase the natural disaster.
BO: It's only going to end well.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
ALLISON: Stormchasers.
ALYSSA: Oh my god, Nilfgaard edition. They go to chase Yennefer and Ciri, they attack them. And you know, of course, that's immediately when Geralt, Jaskier, Yarpen, and his crew conveniently come in and take care of the situation. This doesn't look great for anybody involved. Geralt is equally as mistrustful of Yennefer as Ciri is. Geralt sends Ciri away with Jaskier and Yarpen to go back to Kaer Mohren and Geralt, who has his bloodied sword at Yennefer's throne, demands that she recite the incantation. She feels very broken. She was about to do this thing she was so desperate to do because of Geralt and Ciri's relationship, because she had a change of heart. She doesn't go through with it. But Geralt still forces her to say this incantation and he still doesn't believe her. So you know, she says, “Behold, the Mother of Forest, the Deathless Mother nesting and dreams turn your back to the forest, hut, hut. Turn your front to me, hut, hut”, and then they disappear!
ALLISON: Yeah, I also thought it was, like, interesting where Geralt's like, oh, yeah, I have a monster to kill. And it's like, oh, does he mean Yennefer, but then it's like, oh, no, they mean Voleth Meir. So I thought it could have gone both ways.
BO: That's how I took that scene as well.
ALYSSA: I mean, like, never say never right?
ALLISON: Yeah.
BO: Yeah. I took that, that context in a very similar way as well like, oh, wow, he means Yennefer in this, in this situation, but then yes, it's resolved. Henry Cavill is—is wonderful in this scene. This is a hard one to act out, I would imagine, because there are a lot of conflicting emotions inside of him at this very moment. I mean, wow, talk about a hard decision to raise that sword.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: To her throat. But ultimately, he doesn't care. That's what he's gonna do. She— she put Ciri's life in danger. And he's going to do anything in his power to stop that from happening. And the intensity in his eyes when he claims Ciri as mine, not your’s Yennefer, she's mine. Wow. I rewound that scene several times.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's— it's a lot of conviction and I think a lot of affirmation because they’ve both been dancing around this idea and you know, it's like they’ve both been feeling it. But, this episode, between Ciri's admission to Yennefer, Geralt's admission to Jaskier, they both said that privately but, like, never within, like, earshot. It feels like he is claiming her as his daughter with conviction. It’s like, oops, we’re a family now.
BO: Let's do a road trip.
ALYSSA: Uh-oh spaghettios.
BO: Let’s go to Disneyland.
ALYSSA: You know, we finally come to the close of the episode. In Cintra, an assassin kills the newborn Elven baby. Voleth Meir feeds on Francesca's pain, filling the demon with enough power to leave the hut and find a new home in Ciri. As with a lot of things in this episode, incredibly heartbreaking. We, the collective we, have doted on this beautiful elven baby, with its little squeaky little ears. It is killed in the middle of the night. Because we spent all this time with Francesca, Filavandrel, Dara, and the elves, we know how much this really means to them. As Stregobor put it, like, really is a symbol and a beacon of an elven future really, in hopes for, like, an elven renaissance and of a—of a resurgence of their power. So to one: lose a child and two: lose this beacon of hope for the entire society, is really heartbreaking. Voleth Meir of course, kind of, like, noshing on all that pain, before, like, disappearing into the sky.
ALLISON: Embers.
BO: She gets a—she gets Thanos snapped.
ALYSSA: Yeah, it's like we all just kind of, like, turned to stardust. And then like Ciri accidentally, like, huffs her remains. And then we're here in episode eight. But what did you guys think of, like, this entire closing sequence?
ALLISON: Oh, my gosh, well, it was really powerful. You know, the Elven baby was murdered pretty much, which is obviously heartbreaking, like, no matter the situation. And then, you know, Voleth Meir cackling away, turning into embers, floating away. It's just like feeding off of that. So to end the episode like this, it's like, oh, my gosh, what's gonna happen in the next episode?
BO: Yeah, it's a perfect place to leave the penultimate episode. I think, like, the world is just in chaos. And you don't know what the repercussions of this are going to be, exactly, and yeah, Tom and Misha, wow. I mean, how do you even prepare for a scene like this, going into it? You know, it's gotta be just, it probably just wrecks you for the whole rest of the day, but they are wonderful in this scene. And it's just— like you said, it's— it's heartbreaking to watch.
ALYSSA: Yeah.
BO: I love you know, like you said, this baby means so much to their culture, and to see it taken away is— they are, let's just say not going to be very happy about that.
ALYSSA: No, and like, it sets up the final episode very nicely. I think regardless of your feelings about the plotline, and I know that across the board, and across all of the episodes of Breakfast in Beauclair Season Four, as we've been discussing Season Two of the Netflix series, I've had conflicts about, like, the Voleth Meir storyline, in general. But I do think that all the little chess pieces in this specific episode do set up episode eight, as best as they can. And I will agree with you Bo, like, I think it is like a good penultimate episode. As we close up the episode, like, I'd love to hear some of your final thoughts. I know for me, this episode just felt like an exploration of hope, I think, and an exploration of desperation, which I think is really interesting to see the dynamic there. And I think those things can't really exist without the other of course, as Nenneke proposed, like in the beginning of this episode. Because a lot of these characters wouldn't have gone to the lengths if they did if they didn't hold out hope for so long. We see that in Ciri having hope that she's going to find Geralt in Cintra, Fringilla and thinking that she'll find an ally, any ally throughout the course of the episode that goes through, you know, like a handful and doesn't find any support anywhere. But she still carries that hope until it turns to isolation. The same thing for Geralt, he believes that he's going to find Yennefer and Ciri and Francesca, Filavandrel, Dara, all of the Elves believe that this child is, is the beginning of a new era for them. And I think that they're one of the strongest carriers of hope throughout the episode until, of course, the end. And Yennefer, her hope, and her desperation drive her toward bringing Ciri to Cintra until she has that change of heart. So I feel like this episode really explores the lengths to which people will go and the desperation that they find themselves in and what drives them to continue. So I found it to be a really interesting episode and a really interesting character study.
BO: Absolutely, it was, it was one of my favorites as well. I'm always a fan of penultimate episodes. I feel like that was always the case in Game of Thrones.
ALYSSA: RIP.
BO: I'm gonna say that— I'm gonna say the forbidden words here. Yeah, Fire and Blood, watch out. But yeah, I felt like in that series penultimate episodes, were always like the, oh shit episodes. You can kind of finale episodes, you sort of know what to expect, it's usually going to be a big battle. And it's exciting, and it's fun, but it's the pulpy kind of fun, and I feel like penultimate episodes typically set up the mystery, and the intrigue and they leave you in this sort of despair sometimes. And I think the—the theme of hope is, is absolutely correct, and what your characters do, when that hope is taken away. Because that's— that's a muddy kind of emotion. You know, there's a lot of expectations and a lot of—a lot of things people are ho-hoping to get out of it. And so if those aren't met, they will do some interesting things. I think, like, losing hope is a big theme of this—this season. Geralt losing hope in Yennefer I think ultimately at the end of this episode, in particular, he's sort of at that point where he's, I don't know if he's completely trusting her at this point. And yeah, it was several key scenes in particular that made it one of my— one of my favorites of the season.
ALLISON: Yeah, agreed about the theme of hope that really kind of summarizes a lot of the character's objectives like you were saying, Alyssa, and yeah, hope, that's the biggest thing. And there was a lot to tackle in this episode in terms of content but overall, it was really great to kind of have a really deep discussion about what their intentions were, as well as kind of what they were hoping to happen in the end. So again, setting up for the last episode, episode eight, so.
BO: It's going down for real.
ALYSSA: Ah man. What an episode and what an episode it is. That is it for our show today. Allison, Bo, thank you so much for joining me for this episode. And thank you to our Hanza for listening. Next episode, join us as we discuss The Witcher Season 2, Episode 8, Family.
Outro & Credits
[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]
ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.
Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.
Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, Psilocybe Sorcerer, A Toussaint Knight, Jeanette of Brokilon, Miriam of Temeria, Softie, and Mary the Moo.
Special thanks to Allison and Bo for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.
Transcriptionist: Kristianne Benganio