Ep. 45 — Chapter 7 from "Blood of Elves" (Part 1)

Sarah A. from the UK and Alycia from France join Alyssa for Part 1 of our discussion of Andrzej Sapkowski’s first Witcher novel Blood of Elves, Chapter 7. Very important bits include: a joyous reunion between long-lost twins, Ciri’s newest influence and her adoptive identity as a sorceress, war as a lived experience versus as historical record, Yennefer’s maternal relationship with Ciri and motherhood in the Witcher, Chicken Social Hierarchy for the Soul, The Devil’s Tango and the structural integrity of rhinoceros, and “Mounds!”

This episode is available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Stitcher.

Transcript

Cold Open

SARAH: Yeah, I'm jealous of Geralt, like I want Yennefer to be my big titty goth wife.

ALYCIA: Yes. Big titty goth wife is a really great description

ALYSSA: Is that, is that gonna be the opening to this episode?

ALYCIA: Oh god. I love it. Oh my god.

ALYSSA: Oooh, my god

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Introduction

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair, a global Witcher Podcast. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I’ll be your host as you, I, and our international hanza accompany Geralt of Rivia and his destiny, Cirilla of Cintra, across the Continent.

It’s the penultimate episode of Breakfast in Beauclair, Season 3! But don’t go anywhere: We’ve got announcements including planning for the very first big Hanza meetup next year!

[Hanza-ween]

But first, we’ll see you in two weeks for the Hanzaween Halloween Party and Witcher closet cosplay contest on Saturday, October 30th! Meet members of our community and join the party at the Hanza Discord at bit.ly/thehanzadiscord at 7PM CET / 6PM GMT / 1PM EDT / 11AM PDT / 5AM AEST +1.

[Podcast Survey & Call for Guests]

The open call for guests is still open! We’re booking the next two seasons of the podcast, which will cover Nightmare of the Wolf & “The Witcher” Season 2, then Andrzej Sapkowski’s Time of Contempt. If you would like to be on a future episode of the show, access the application at bit.ly/witcherguest. This link will be open indefinitely—if you’re listening at a far point in the future—and potential guests will be contacted ahead of each season of the show.

You can find this year’s podcast survey at bit.ly/listenersurvey2021. Reading your honest feedback has been incredibly insightful and I’m looking forward to implementing it in Seasons 4 and 5. Haven’t filled it out yet? You’ve got time! Receive a code for 15% off the Breakfast in Beauclair shop at the end of the survey as a thank you for your time and thoughts! The code is good through the end of October 2021.

[Hanza Meetup: EDINBURGH 2022]

Finally: we’ve discussed it for ages, but we’re finally planning our first Hanza meetup! Meet us in Edinburgh from Friday, April 29th through Monday, May 2nd for Beltane! Interested in attending? Join the Hanza Discord to join travel planning and coordination over the podcast break.

[Patron Announcements]

As always, thank you to our patrons for making the show possible and to our producer-level patrons on Patreon: Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Brett from California, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Sebastian von Novigrad, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, and Kyle, the H2HOE.

If you’d like to explore becoming a patron of the show, head over to patreon.com/breakfastinbeauclair.

[Episode Details]

As for this episode, Sarah A. from the UK and Alycia from France call in for Part 1 of our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 7. Join us as these two long-lost twins unite to discuss Ciri’s newest influence and her adoptive identity as a sorceress, war as a lived experience versus as historical record, Yennefer’s maternal relationship with Ciri and motherhood in the Witcher, Chicken Social Hierarchy for the Soul, The Devil’s Tango and the structural integrity of rhinoceros, and “Mounds!”

In our mid-episode news segment, “Tidings from Toussaint,” Lars from Witcherflix shares press and speculation around the Witcher Season 2 and its multiple spinoff series.

Without further ado, let’s begin our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 7.

Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Welcome to Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa and I'm so pleased to welcome two new guests to the show. My first guest is a registered nurse currently working in Pediatrics and hails from the real life Toussaint, Bordeaux, France. Please welcome Alycia from France. Hey!

ALYCIA: Hi.

ALYSSA: And my second guest is a medical student from the UK who you'll recognize from the Hanza’s European D&D games as Talia, the wood elf druid. Please welcome Sarah A. from the UK. Hi Sarah!

SARAH: Hi!

ALYSSA: Well, I'm very excited to chat with both of you today as we close down Blood of Elves with this final chapter, Chapter Seven. But before we get into that, I just want to get to know both of you a little bit better and for our listeners to get to know you too. So just to start off, uh the famous question, how did you both get into the Witcher?

ALYCIA: Actually, my sister had played the game The Witcher 3 before. As usual she didn't know what she wanted for her Christmas gift and she was all like, “Can you just get me Witcher 3 so I can have it on my Steam account?” So I got it for her. And then she was like, “You know what? I think you should play it. I think you'd like it.” And then I ended up being obsessed with the thing when she has like only played the game. So my sister was really like, “Take it for you. Good.” So yeah, you know, and then I actually played The Witcher 3 in its entirety. I read the books, I first read them in French and then I read them in English. And then I played the other games and then I watched the show, and then it became a whole thing, and now I'm here.

SARAH: That's just so funny because that was pretty much the exact same for me that my sister was really into it as well. She was like, “Oh my god, Sarah. You have to play this game. It's amazing.” And I kind of looked at it and I said,” I don't think I'm gonna like this”. And she just was so insistent. “You will love it. You will love it. Play it.” —

ALYCIA: Yeah.

SARAH:  — And I played it, and I loved it and I read all the books and I read the comics and I'm just flat out obsessed with it now. I'm writing my own Witcher stories like this is how obsessed I've become with it. So I look back on my old me and I laugh when I was like, “I don't think I'll enjoy this.” Like girl, you're gonna write like 300,000 plus words about this Witcher universe. Girl, you don't even know.

ALYSSA: Oh, well. I'd love to ask you a little bit more about that, Sarah. The Hanza has found out through Discord that you write fanfiction for the Witcher. We have also found some of your readers as well in our community. So how did you get into that and, if you're comfortable with it, could you tell us a little bit about the stories that you're writing that take place on the continent?


SARAH: Yeah, yeah, of course. I have to say it was, it was very surreal having people coming to the Discord being like, oh I got here through Promises to Keep by DolBlathanna and being like, oh my god that's me!

ALYCIA: Wait.

SARAH: I’m DolBlathanna.

ALYCIA: You’re DolBlathanna?

SARAH: Yeah!

ALYCIA: I read your stories!

SARAH: Oh what?

ALYCIA: I’m not even kidding!

SARAH: Oh my gosh!

ALYCIA: I have you on Archive of our Own. I have an account there. Oh my — wait, what?! Hi!

SARAH: What?!

ALYCIA: How are you?

ALYSSA: Incredible.

SARAH: Oh my god. If you’re comfortable, what’s your account name?

ALYCIA: Wait, I gotta check. I can’t remember. Wait, wait, wait.

ALYSSA: This is so good. 

SARAH: Oh my god.

ALYSSA: You guys have so much in common.

ALYCIA: This is happening people.

SARAH: I kind of, oh my goodness I can't believe that a… Hi. It's really nice to meet you. I hope you are enjoying the story.

ALYCIA: I am actually.

ALYSSA: Well, I could not have planned that any better.

ALYCIA: Yeah, I was meaning to ask you because I did read on the blurb that you do fanfiction and I was meaning to ask you because I was like maybe I read some of it, but I did!

SARAH: Oh my goodness. Alyssa, you are like, your mind is 4D chess. It’s incredible.

ALYSSA: Apparently. I think it's definitely like the spirit of Melitele moving through me. Sarah wasn't actually the original guest for this episode and kindly stepped in because I thought she'd be a perfect substitute. And it's so funny that both of you got into the Witcher the same way —

ALYCIA: Yes!

ALYSSA: — We’ll talk about it later, but both of you’re in medicine and now you're already familiar with each other, I guess?

ALYCIA: Are you my long lost twin? Did we get separated at birth or something?

SARAH: Literally, it’s oh my goodness, its crazy.

ALYSSA: Well, yeah, I mean, apparently Alycia already knows, but could you tell us a little bit about the stories that you've written for AO3?

SARAH: So my story series, Promises to Keep, follows the canon for the games and the books. It takes place one year after the Witcher 3 DLC Blood and Wine. The story does have a lot of spoilers obviously for the games, but also for the book so be careful if you haven't finished either of these. I will try and give a synopsis, this might be tricky because of spoilers, but I'll do my best. When Geralt’s life is thrown into danger, Yennefer and Redacted must work together to save him from a terrible fate.

ALYSSA: I used to love fanfiction, like growing up I read a lot of Harry Potter fanfiction. I have yet to like dip my toe into the Witcher fanfiction just because I've been so in the source material the last few years, but it's something that I definitely want to check out. I would love to check out the stuff that you've written, especially because you seem so passionate about it and so do other members of our community so I'm excited to look at that.

SARAH: Oh, thank you.

ALYSSA: The other thing that you have, Sarah, that you're interested in, in the Witcher universe is also the comics and the figurines as well.

SARAH: Yeah, I'm a sucker for buying Witcher merch. CDPR has gotten a lot of money out of me. Yeah, it's the comics were definitely something that really brought me into it as well. The comic called Fox Children is my favorite all-time comic if it wasn't clear, as well as obviously I have a very big fondness for Aguaras in my fan fiction, and that was really from the Witcher comics. I really, really enjoy them, there's a lot of them. They all have very different art styles and they take place at different points in the story. Some of them take place in the books. Some of them take place after the games. Some of them are just kind of their own standalone thing. And if you're a fan of The Witcher series, I would definitely recommend checking out the comics but just be warned, if you haven't finished the games in the DLC, some of them are spoilery —

ALYSSA: Mm hmm.

SARAH: — and will basically be like, well, this is the ending that you got for the game and this is what happened in this DLC. So yeah, just a word of caution. And yeah, I have, I have a lot of Witcher figures. I've spent embarrassingly a lot of money on them and I still continue to. I'm very excited for that Ninja Yennefer figure to arrive.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I feel like it's just common knowledge as soon as news drops, you let Sarah know. Then she will scoop it up right away.

SARAH: Thanks for letting me know about that Kickstarter, you know that I have pledged for the Ronin comic.

ALYSSA: Yeah, I'm, I’m unsurprised and I'm excited for you to get it though. And Alycia, I always love to ask this question to people who have read The Witcher in other languages. You're from France, you speak French. Is there anything that surprised you when going from the French translation to the English one?

ALYCIA: So I have like one funny story about reading the books in French. So I was reading Sword of Destiny, and I was reading Shard of Ice. I had played the games before, so I had the visual of Yennefer’s unicorn and what happens on it? I do not know why but you know there's only like a teeny tiny mention of the unicorn in the books. The unicorn is not a unicorn in French. —

ALYSSA: Oh.

ALYCIA: — It’s a rhinoceros? —

SARAH: A what?!

ALYCIA: — And that is the least sexy thing that I have ever read? I mean —

ALYSSA: Oh, no.

ALYCIA: — I mean. I guess like structurally speaking, it must be like easier to like sit on, and like lie on, and do stuff on but I mean like it's really not magical? I read it and I was like, wait, I might confusing it for something else. It’s like, is there another animal? Is the unicorn coming? Like, is this the party? Like what's gonna happen? And then no, it doesn't and so I got online and I was like, wait like, am I the only one that’s confused? And then people were like, I don't know what happened. I don't know, maybe the word for unicorn and the word for rhinoceros in Polish may be there’s like something there. But I just…that still boggles me —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — It was changed in the newest edition. It got changed, thank God. But on the one that I did read, it was a rhino. You know, very sexy.

ALYSSA: Amazing.

SARAH: Guys, the most incredible thing I’ve ever heard is “Have sex on my rhinoceros, dear.”

ALYCIA: Yes! Can you imagine the sheer size of the thing too?

ALYSSA: In a medieval cabin? —

ALYCIA: Yes!

ALYSSA: No.

SARAH: I really get in the mood when I'm on the back of this giant rhinoceros.

ALYSSA: I mean, I guess it is the closest thing to a unicorn we probably have in our non-magical worlds, just that it's the size of a truck, like....

ALYCIA: Yeah! It's enormous. But as I was saying, you know, like it's quite wide, so must be a lot easier to like, do the Devil's Tango on.

SARAH: I am never gonna be able to watch a David Attenborough documentary again. If he goes to Africa and he's like “the mighty rhinoceros”. And I'm gonna be like, well, I guess that's ruined for life.

ALYCIA: Yeah, you mighty.

ALYSSA: I don’t think I could have ever imagined 10 minutes ago when we started this episode that I would hear rhinoceros and the devil's tango in the same sentence.

ALYCIA: I mean I was just genuinely confused because you know, you have the visual. And I mean, like, I was like, thank God I know that it's not actually a rhino and a unicorn. Because what if you just like, innocently read the books? And you're like, oh, wait, that's that's weird. Well, already the unicorn thing is sort of weird. But then you know, it's not magical or it's sort of like fantastical in any way. It's just a bloody rhino.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

SARAH: Hakuna Matata.

ALYCIA: Yes!

ALYSSA: Oh. Good. Lord.

ALYCIA: So that's like the one that really, really comes to mind when people ask me that question.

ALYSSA: Hard switch, we're going to just do a hard switch from horizontal hokey pokey to one of the things that you guys have in common is your profession. And again, could not have planned this any better but both of you are in the medical field, which is so perfect as we're visiting the Temple of Melitele and Mother Nenneke, who is, you know, famously a very powerful healer. So out of curiosity, what drew both of you to the practice of medicine?

ALYCIA: Insanity.

SARAH: I can second that.

ALYCIA: Just pure insanity. I feel like, you know, it's a very stupid answer of, I wanted to do a job where I would feel happy with myself at the end of the day, that I had actually done something to help people? And also combined with the fact that I watched a shitload of Grey's Anatomy when I was like 10 years old. So you know, you sort of go like, yes, I want to do that. It looks cool. And then you end up realizing that there are no nurses in Grey's Anatomy, that surgeons will just like keep pretending that they do everything. And that you do not do CPR on a regular basis, thank God. And that, you know, you don't end up in like crazy stuff where you have to like pull people out of fires because well, sometimes it's just a regular job. Sometimes.

SARAH: Is this our fatal difference? We were so similar but I despise Grey's Anatomy. I cannot stand it.

ALYCIA: Really?

SARAH: — I guess it's a well known fact now on the Discord that if you just say Grey's Anatomy near me, I just start seeing red because I cannot stand the show. I —

ALYCIA: Yeah. I mean my opinion of it has drastically changed. Now I've watched it and I'm like, why would you do that? Why — no — that makes no sense, stop trying to kill people. But then you know, I don't watch it anymore. But you know, my 10 year old self was very enthusiastic.

SARAH: Okay, I can get that. Yeah, ‘cause I only really watched it after I started medicine —

ALYCIA: Oh, no, don't do that.

SARAH: — no you can’t —

ALYCIA: Are you insane? That doesn’t work.

SARAH: Yeah. It’s infuriating because everyone should be fired.

ALYCIA: Yes!

SARAH: The hospital should just not function properly because everyone is so terrible.

ALYCIA: I do not even know how that hospital runs. I mean, each doctor has one patient for like a week and I'm like, what?! How much money do you guys get paid?

SARAH: In terms of why I decided to go into medicine, I just feel like it's a pretty similar answer. And you'll just hear this again and again, like you joined because you, you want to help people basically. And like there's no real special dramatic answer really apart from that, you know. Yeah, its just a job where you help people and it's, it's a nice feeling knowing that you've made a difference in people's lives, whether that's in a big way, which obviously isn't me yet, I'm still a medical student, but even in a small way, you know, talking to patients and kind of listening to what their concerns are and stuff like that.

ALYSSA: As we, you know, look toward this chapter, meet the novices in the Temple of Melitele, see Yennefer and Ciri on the grounds, just feels very appropriate to have both of you here for this chapter as well.

SARAH: Yeah, thank you for inviting us both on to the show. Alyssa. —

ALYCIA: Yeah.

SARAH: — It's really exciting, especially if this is my favorite chapter in the whole series.

ALYCIA: Yes, me too!

SARAH: I love this chapter.

ALYCIA: Ah! Oh my god. Who are you?! I love this book and I love this chapter and I have an undying love for Yen and Ciri.

ALYSSA: This really does feel like fate.

SARAH: This is actually spooky.

ALYSSA: Yeah. We will praise Melitele by the end of this, I'm sure.

ALYCIA: Yes.

ALYSSA: So today we'll discuss Blood of Elves Chapter Seven, which ends the novel by bringing together Ciri and Yennefer. In this first section, after bickering with some novices at the Temple of Melitele, Ciri runs to see Jarre, a teenage scholar living at the temple, to ask about signs of war around the region. I guess in some ways, the chapter is very similar to the opening chapters at Kaer Morhen. Uhm it's a lot of vignettes between Ciri and Yennefer and a lot more context about what has been happening with Ciri over the last two chapters since we last saw her in Chapter Four. There's a lot here. There's so much here uh that has happened to Ciri in the time since she split up from Geralt and in the time since she's met Yen. But for right now, before we get to all of that, we start with Ciri and a couple of other novices, Iola the Second and Eurneid, who are teasing her, I mean, they’re kids. They are like 13 at this point. They are just being mean to Ciri, but they are talking about the fact that there are kind of signs of war around the temple. The greve and the Duke have been told by Foltest of Temeria to prepare for sieges, and one of them makes the connection like it can't be the Scoia'tael because Scoia’tael fight in forests. They don't lay siege to castles. Whoever said that had a point. And so upon hearing all this, after fighting a little bit with these two girls, Ciri runs off to see Jarre, who is a, who will, we'll get to. We will, we will get to him. Uhm but do you guys have any immediate thoughts on this short little introduction?

SARAH: Uhm well, one thing that I thought was, I don't know if it was a deliberate choice or not, but I think it's interesting that, feeding the chickens while this is going on, the two girls are being mean to Ciri and I just wondered if the chicken thing was deliberate because you know what the chickens that like quite renowned for having you know that pecking order. —

ALYCIA: Aah.

SARAH: — I guess not to anthropomorphize it, but they can be quite mean and bratty to each other, supposedly chickens can. I have a friend who has a lot of farm animals, and she said that the chickens would just get in fights so much and they could be very kind of quite aggressive with each other. And they have their own kind of like almost a social hierarchy. But in whatever chicken way that they do it. I'm not an expert in chickens. But I just wondered if that was, because we get the pecking order is, we get that from the way that chickens act. —

ALYSSA: Huh.

SARAH: — So I was wondering if that was deliberate or if he was just like, oh, I'll just have them be feeding chickens if he didn't put any thought into it, if I'm just doing an English Lit thing where I’m reading too much into it, you know.

ALYSSA: No, that's a really interesting point. That's something that I hadn't thought about.

ALYCIA: It's the first time I believe that we see Ciri interacting with people her own age —

ALYSSA: Yep.

ALYCIA: — and it's not really going great. Very definitely being mean girls to her instead of being like, bullying her and Ciri, you know, not really surprisingly, is not letting herself get bullied. And it's very like, yes, you are. No you're not. Yes, you are. And it's actually very cute, she's just like standing her ground.

ALYSSA: One of my favorite lines from this is Ciri, just biting back. “Some girls are smart so they get books, and some girls are dumb, so they get a broom.”

ALYCIA: Snap.

ALYSSA: Yeah, like you can just tell how angry she is continually throughout this chapter uhm and here as well. There are a lot of points that people know how similar to Yennefer she is now. And like how snide she can be and how, not cruel, but just like very um decisive and very um , my brain is just like not working today, uh.

SARAH: She's cutting with her insults —

ALYSSA: Yes.

SARAH: — in the way Yennefer is.

ALYSSA: And like I said, we haven't spent a significant amount of time with her at least since she was with Geralt and Yarpen. And that was a much softer chapter for Ciri?

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYSSA: — Like we've talked continually through the podcast about points that have really defined Ciri, and points in which she's lost a certain, a certain amount of innocence. And like the sacking of Cintra is one, the end of Shaerrawedd is another and like she's definitely grown between then and now. Uhm obviously, with being independent and being amongst these girls on her own for the first time since she spent the last few years with Geralt and then also meeting Yen. And just seeing Yennefer’s influence on her independence and on her ability to defend herself.

SARAH: Definitely. One thing that is funny is that you can definitely see that she's taking after Yennefer but she still has that old Witcher influence where it says she cursed loudly, repeating a favorite saying of Vesemir’s that she did not entirely understand and then words she’d heard Yarpen Zigrin use, the meaning of which were a total mystery to her. I think its very funny that she's so snide, like, I use something that you rarely use, and then she's just like, shit fuck bollocks.

ALYCIA: The worst thing is that she doesn't even understand it. So you know, she knows like in what context those words are used, and she's like, fuck it.

ALYSSA: When we talked in chapter four with Leah, I remember having the conversation about like kids really are like a sponge —

ALYCIA: Yes.

ALYSSA: — and Ciri particularly when Triss gets to Kaer Morhen, Ciri is stomping around the grounds like she is a witcher, like she's a tiny little witcher boy. She gets to the caravan with Yarpen, and she's just like, mimicking Yarpen and all this stuff, and she is just very impressionable at this moment. I think that as we see Ciri age throughout the series, like it's such a interesting foundation, all of these influences.

ALYCIA: Yeah, I feel like you know, I think Ciri is really like searching for her identity because you know, so many things have happened to her at such a young age. And she basically lost everything in the sack. She lost her family. She lost her belief system. She's not a princess anymore. She lost her social status. And so like, suddenly, she's like, no, I'm a witcher. No, I'm going to be a sorceress and you know, like —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

SARAH: — she tries to, like, take everything and be like this is what I'm going to be until, you know, she does this sort of weird mix of everything and sort of becomes a person that she's now.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and that's a really nice transition to uh the next section as well. That identity that Ciri feels with being a sorceress, she says that repeatedly and explicitly in this next section with Jarre. Peter Kenny says Jara, and everyone I've heard since says Yara with that soft J. Who knows? I'm going to say Yara, because I've gotten used to that in the last few years. So I'm just gonna say it that way.

ALYCIA: I mean in French, it would be Ja, which always sounded weird to me because like, what's what you put water into serve on the table?

ALYSSA: Mm.

ALYCIA: And every time I was like, that's not a name. That is not a name.

ALYSSA: Ciri, having kind of rolled around with her identity as a princess, as a witcher girl, and then now as a sorcerer, we see this throughout the section as she continually reminds Jarre, which is incredible. You know, after having a little squabble with the girls, she darts toward Jarre’s Tower, and she's doing spins and pirouettes and pretending to hack up things with a sword, comes to the tower and essentially calls out to him like Rapunzel. She's like, Jarre, let me up. And he's like, ah, okay! She runs up the tower, and he's like, fixing himself up and like, clearing the space. And she has no reservations, no sense of embarrassment. And she just marches in and she's like, tell me about this possible war. And he's like, what?! She's just like, there are all these signs. The girls are saying this, like, you should know. You go to town often, like, have you heard anything? What's going on? And he's so nervous. He's nervous this whole chapter, but in this instance, he's particularly nervous about giving information. He says like, well, you know, I don't think there's going to be one because I can make guesses, I can infer from history as well as through analogy which ends up being a running joke for the reader throughout this chapter. But to his best guess, Jarre doesn't believe that there's going to be a war happening. He walks us and Ciri through what has happened politically in this time. So we hear from him that there have been recent skirmishes in Dol Angra, but he doesn't, as I said he doesn't mean that this means war. Ciri asks where Nilfgaard is, and Jarre points to this very far spot on the floor as he's put down a map, and Ciri’s so surprised that Nilfgaard is so far away, but they've managed to come to the Northern Kingdoms. And Jarre confirms that they conquered Metinna, Maecht, Nazair, Ebbing, and all the kingdoms south of the Amell Mountains including Cintra and Upper Sodden, but not Lower Sodden, Verden and Brugge. Currently, the Yaruga River, which runs East to West between Cintra and Mahakam is currently the natural border between the empire of Nilfgaard and the Northern Kingdoms because it's almost impossible to pass. And then the last thing that we hear from Jarre about the political and military operations happening on the continent is that right now, Nilfgaard hasn't attacked because Nilfgaard doesn't want to give a cause for war yet, neither do the Northern Kingdoms. We had heard in Chapter Five, when we sat at the table with a couple of the monarchs from the North that they'd also signed a truce after the last Nilfgaardian war under Vilgefortz of Roggeveen so they're not going to attack either, even though they might try something. That's all the details that Jarre gives us. And we do hear from Ciri as well, a little bit about Jarre. She first tells us that uh he's not very cute. He's a very awkward 16 year old that doesn't look anything like what an attractive Cintran man would look like. She gives a very colorful description that a Cintran man would be as tall as the doorframe and stink from about 30 paces away of horses and beer at any time of day. And Jarre is a very scrawny 16 year old with um seven whiskers, most of which are wrapped from a wart on his face and he's very scrawny and sad. Uhm —

SARAH: She looks at him just like, pathetic.

ALYCIA: Oh, my god.

ALYSSA: Ahh, yeah.

SARAH: My favorite thing, I just like, I know that this whole section is like all serious and they're talking about the war, but it's just so funny that she's so annoyed at him. And she’s just like, tell me about the war. Tell me about the war. You're smart. Tell me about this. And he keeps on resisting. And she just so quickly changes. “Oh, Jarre, tell me please. You're so clever.” Fluttering her eyelashes, its just so funny how quickly she turns that switch like she knows what to do to get what she wants. I just think that’s so funny.

ALYCIA: “You’re so smart!”

SARAH: Yeah, so hook line sinker so it works…

ALYSSA: It does. And we will see what Yennefer thinks of that as well. Yeah, but it is notable that she clearly knows what she's doing.

ALYCIA: I find it interesting also, that apparently, the adults in the temple are not discussing war, at least openly in front of the kids or to the kids? I feel like the kids have to find those information through like backdoors. Like they overhear the cheese merchant talking about it. And Ciri has to go to Jarre to just like, beg him and like flutter her eyelashes for him to give her info. So you know, I think having lived through the sack of Cintra, she's extremely worried about war entails and she's extremely scared. So she wants to reassure herself with information or at the least get herself ready as much as she can and like, prepare herself for maybe another disaster in her life.

SARAH: Yeah, I think that's kind of the sad thing. But like, obviously, I'm not sure if it's mentioned later on in the chapter or earlier in the book, but very few people actually know who she is and what her background is because they’re keeping it secret. So there is something very sad that you know, the girls are just like, it's just gossip to them. Like, oh my god, this is going to be a war with Nilfgaard. And he's like, oh, and if you drew you know, using all these analogies and like, oh, and I've read the history books, and it's not going to be a war but for her it's so real. They have no idea she was there when Nilfgaard took Cintra, you know.

ALYCIA: She lost everything to that. I mean, like she, she has reasons to be worried. She lost her entire family. She lost everything. I mean, she must be terrified.

ALYSSA: Mm hmm. And that comes up really explicitly when Jarre is just like, “Oh, like, did you know Cintra fell?” And she's like, “…Do I know Cintra fell? Do I know Cintra fell? Do I?”

ALYCIA: What do you think?

ALYSSA: Yeah. It even says throughout the chapter, she almost let slip that, well actually she does let slip the events of Chapter Four and like oh, I know a little bit about this political thing more than you and she starts talking about the caravan before cutting herself off and being like, oops Geralt told me not to tell anybody about that. That must be awful to carry around a secret like that, for her safety of course, but being 12,13 and having to carry that burden must be so heavy, so heavy.

ALYCIA: That's what I find interesting. The whole like juxtaposition between you know, a whole theme about like preteens sort of hitting on each other and like discovering sexuality, and being like, oh, you're pretty, and being like, what is sex? And you know, it's sort of just really feels like, you know, some sort of camp like for preteens or something? And at the same time there’s like looming talks about war and about destiny and —

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — all her memories about what happened in Cintra. And it's just really interesting to see those two sides of the Ciri that is still a young child and you know, living her young child life that still, you know, having, like the weight of the world on her shoulders, and like so much trauma.

SARAH: Yeah, it's really interesting, that kind of juxtaposition of like, yeah, like you said, there's this looming threat of war, but at the same time, she's still a child. —

ALYSSA: Mm hmm.

ALYCIA: Yeah

SARAH: — And she has child worries and the gossiping with the girls and like, childhood still goes on, even in these kind of very troubled times. And I think it's interesting that he shows it's not just one or the other. It's both.

ALYSSA: And a child's perspective and a child's innocence, I think, you know, despite everything, I think we'll see a little bit more of that, in a sense as she talks to Yennefer, but yeah, it's these two things can coexist. And just because she's gone through this trauma, she's only hardened in certain ways, and still very soft in others. It's clear that she doesn't let herself be bullied, but she's still affected by it. And she has gone through these incredible experiences through losing everything at Cintra, through being separated from Geralt again, she's continuing to adapt. So in the next section, Yennefer telepathically calls Ciri back to their quarters and the Witcher girl recalls their first meeting. So at the very end of the section with Jarre, Ciri cuts herself off and she's like, in my mind, she puts her fingers to her temple and I don't know if she didn't say that in the books. I don't remember.

ALYCIA: No, it doesn’t.

ALYSSA: Okay.

SARAH: Yeah, “she raised her head abruptly, quickly touched her temples with her fingers and frowned”.

ALYCIA: Oh my god, she did? Okay. I didn’t even — yeah.

ALYSSA: There we go. Yeah, cuz I imagine it like Professor X in X-Men. She puts her fingers through temples and she's like, gotta go. And he's like, what? She's just like, bye, from a sorceress to a scribe, goodbye. And she like runs away. Incredible.

SARAH: He's like, oh, I'll be thinking of you, and she’s just like, ahh, euchhh.

ALYCIA: Ugh, it’s so funny.

ALYSSA: I do not miss being that age. I do not miss being like 13, 16 and having to deal with middle school romance, high school romance. I do not miss that at all.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we follow Ciri’s summons, we’re going to hand it over to Lars from WitcherFlix for recent news on the Netflix show. When we come back, Sarah, Alycia, and I will continue our discussion of Blood of Elves, Chapter 7.

“Tidings from Toussaint”

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

LARS FROM WITCHERFLIX: Hey, it's Lars from WitcherFlix and this is "Tidings from Toussaint". Welcome back everybody! This is another rather short episode. The Witcher world at the moment is very calm. But I am keeping my fingers crossed that it is only the calm before the storm and in a few weeks or so we will have another Season 2 trailer or something similar to talk about.

Anyway, there is only a little bit more than two months to go until the release of Season 2 of The Witcher. While we already know that the new episodes will adapt "A Grain of Truth", one of the fan favorite short stories, showrunner Lauren Hissrich confirmed on Twitter that the Witcher show is not done yet adapting the short stories. There are still some great ones left, that are waiting for an adaptation, for example, the framing story "The Voice of Reason" set at the Temple of Melitele in Ellander, "A Shard of Ice" focusing on Geralt and Istredd (which is rumored to be in Season 2 already in some shape or form), or even "A Little Sacrifice" with the fan favorite bard Essie Daven. This one would need a little bit of tweaking of course, but it would be possible to integrate it into the Netflix Witcher timeline. We will see.

On Twitter, Lauren Hissrich also talked about the recently announced "kids and family show" set in the Witcher world. She answered questions about the thoughts behind creating a kids show in a franchise that is actually targeted at a mature audience. She said: "I believe if too much content is directed at the same exact group of people, yes, it can oversaturate and get tired. But what we’re doing is allowing new viewers into the Witcher world, ones who’ve been held out because of the nature content… I know so many kids who want to tiptoe into this world — mine included — but there is nothing for them. The idea that they can get a taste of what we adults enjoy, that they can learn this world, fall in love… and then grow into the adult content? It makes me so happy.

In another piece of Witcher news, Variety.com conducted an analysis and determined the most anticipated streaming shows in the Fall of 2021. And yes, of course, The Season 2 of The Witcher has gained the number 1 spot! And I am sure we all can agree! Moreover, Anna Shaffer, who plays Triss Merigold on the show, was a guest at ComicCon Ukraine and during a panel she answered everybody's favorite question: Who would you choose? Yennefer or Triss? And even though she is biased as Triss' actress, she answered the following:” You know, I'm a romantic. It's all building for Geralt and Yen to be together and that's what I want ultimately." I think there is nothing left to add.

And now, let's finish "Tidings from Toussaint" with an awesome news for the Witcher spin-off prequel show "Blood Origin". According to Redanian Intelligence, Scottish actor Mark Rowley will be part of the Witcher miniseries. He is known for his roles in The Spanish Princess as Alexander Stewart and of course as Finan in The Last Kingdom. He will play a royal character named Prince Alvitir.

Anyway guys, that's it for me for today. I hope you all stay safe and well. We'll talk again in the next episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. Until then, thanks again for listening and good luck on the path!

[“Tidings from Toussaint” theme music by MojoFilter Media]

Discussion

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Hey everyone! Welcome back from the break. When we left off, we found Ciri at the temple of Melitele and heard whispers of war on the Continent as she argued with the other novices and interrogated Jarre, the temple scribe.

ALYSSA: Ciri goes running and the section opens and she just bounds into the corridors and she's like, “Lady Yennefer, I'm here.” And Yen is, I guess had just cleaned, she's brushing her hair and it goes on, you know, of course, as it always does about how beautiful Yennefer is. And Yen's like, “Get in the tub. Clean off.” so Ciri does. She sees a stack of letters and she had told Jarre that they were going to leave the temple with some sort of secret purpose. But it turns out Ciri actually doesn't know what that purpose is. But she knows that they needed to wait for letters in order to tell them when to leave. So Ciri sees a stack of letters. She tries, and we find out that she has learned how to send out an impulse and tries to read the letters from the tub. Yennefer immediately says like, “Don't you even dare.” And Ciri is like, well, I thought one of them might be from Geralt. And Yennefer says, “Well, if it was I would have given it to you.” Ciri eventually gets out of the tub. Ciri asks her about the war as well, which Yennefer is clearly trying to shield her from. “We can talk about it later. Don't worry about it right now.” And it's clear that in this time, or for however long that they've known each other that Yennefer has certainly taken on a very maternal role for Ciri. By the end of this section, they end up reminiscing about their first meeting and having a conversation about that.

SARAH: Yeah. And one thing that kind of kept on drawing my attention, and this is the first time it's mentioned, is the swarms of ravens and crows. And I think later on Ciri flat out says like, “Oh, they say it's a bad omen”. Its just interesting that there's been all this gossip and the girls are gossiping, like, oh, is there going to be a war and Jarre is like there's not going to be a war, and this is why and I have all these reasons. But then in the background, there's this huge swarm of crows and ravens. And I may be wrong, but I have heard that the reason why ravens and crows are bad omens associated with war is because obviously they're corvids, and they're also very clever birds and they learnt if there are these huge groups of people marching in one direction, that normally means a lot of people are gonna die, which means lots of food for us, and they kind of learned to follow battles. So I can't help but whenever they mentioned the ravens and crows, I can't help but think, have these birds, have they pegged on that like, oh, some shits gonna go down and that means lots of people are gonna die and we're gonna get some food like I can't help but think of that whenever I see it. It’s just very, very ominous. The constant mention, the mention of the ravens and crows.

ALYSSA: Yeah, and Yennefer had also used well, she used kestrels I suppose in A Shard of Ice. Um, but I feel like we've also heard about ravens previously in the Witcher as well.

ALYCIA: I mean in the game, ravens and crows are definitely associated with Yennefer, I mean, like you have a wolf, a swallow, and the raven. So I don't know like there's definitely some sort of looming threat about her having ravens with — to me now when you tell me raven, I automatically think of Yennefer so it's not like, they're not scary anymore. —

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — I mean, they weren't but you know what I mean? Like, you know.

SARAH: Yeah, like raven locks is how they always describe her.

ALYCIA: Yes! 

SARAH: Yeah, I don't know if that was like an underhanded compliment because like oh, raven feathers, very glossy, but people don't really look that kindly on those birds sometimes, especially in this era, where it was like, they're associated with death because they go onto battlefields and they eat all the dead bodies. Lovely.

ALYCIA: Just to sort of like go back to the whole bath scene. I feel like it's it's very cute that you know Ciri, as we talked about before, it's just like spinning around and doing pirouettes, and like, not having a sword but very kids like when kids play you know, knights and stuff and they’re all like yeah, yeah, yeah. She's sort of really doing that. And I feel like Yennefer is just looking at it and being like, okay, I'll let it slide but you know, don't hit me or something. Just like, be good. Sit down. Take your bath. Calm yourself.

ALYSSA: And she also tells her by the end like no splashing when you get out of the tub.

ALYCIA: Yes! It's nighttime. You need to relax.

SARAH: Ciri is a very, very active child. —

ALYCIA: Yes.

SARAH: — She's very energetic.

ALYSSA: Mm hmm. 

SARAH: That just reminds me of one thing that Yennefer says, that I again, I thought was very funny. When Yennefer’s like you, did you went and you spoke to Jarre and you’re not meant to do that and she tells Ciri off because Ciri was like, you know, playing around with him and kind of leading him on. And she's saying, you know, “don't toy with him it’s base” and then they carry on and then she's also like, oh, and by the way, you shouldn't be speaking to him because you could let something slip and that would be bad because he's smart and might figure it out and I just loved that the first thing she thought to tell Ciri off about wasn't like, oh, you could give away really important information like it can put your life in danger, its was don't toy with him, it’s base. It’s very Yennefer.

ALYCIA: When frankly she does it herself. I mean like, let’s be honest, she does it. She uses glamarye more than once to sort of like, dazzle people into letting her do what she wants.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Oh man. You know what's interesting here, that after Yen does tell Ciri off for playing around with Jarre, that's what causes Ciri to ask like, “Well, what do you think about the war?” Yennefer also tells Ciri like I'm interested in what you think as well. So it definitely shows like how their relationship has become very respectful over the course of what we'll see as well. And there is this one line that I really enjoy where Yennefer is talking to Ciri about war and Ciri’s like, “Well, why is this happening?” And Yennefer says, “You know if the ability to make use of experience to draw conclusions decided, we should have forgotten what war is a long time ago. But those whose goal is war have never been held back nor will be by experience or analogy.” Ciri, having learned the word analogy from Jarre, she's just like, “Well, my grandmother, Queen Calanthe, was smarter than Jarre. And Eist was smarter than Jarre and he saw a narwhal and a sea serpent and probably many an analogy but when Nilfgaard came, there was nothing they could do. And I think that goes back to what we were talking about where it's like, she's one of the few children that we've seen so far that really understands the gravity of war and Yennefer is clearly sympathetic toward her in a sense without line.

SARAH: It really got my heart when — when she says that about you know, “He sailed the seas, saw everything even a narwhal and a sea serpent” and it sounds so childlike that you know this is her standard of this what makes him so cool. He sailed the seas and he saw even a narwhal and a sea serpent, and yet she's still a child but she still has this absolutely devastating experience and understanding of war more than anyone else, really, any of the other people in the temple. —

ALYSSA: Mm hmm.

SARAH: — I just think that there's something so sad about it.

ALYCIA: That whole very sad conversation is also happening you know, while Yennefer's like brushing her hair and like you know doing her hair, and like very maternal and I guess I'd have to say like normal mother-daughter things you know, like getting ready for bed. It's nice to see that even though Ciri’s obviously scared, she also can find comfort in Yennefer being there for her. And also, like Yennefer physically comforts her, like hugs her —

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — and tries to reassure her that you know, everything's gonna be okay, as much as possible. She tries to really be there for her. And also, as you said, Alyssa, like I really like that when Ciri asked about the war, at some point, Yennefer is all like, I really care about what you think about it. —

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — And not just trying to, you know, to just like, be like, here's what's going to happen and you should think that because I'm your mom and I think that. She's all like what do you think and trying to you know, further her thoughts about the war and her own ideas as a person and not just repeating things that other people have said to her.

SARAH: I love them both so much. This whole interaction, like you said, she's really interested in what Ciri has to say. And she hugged Ciri and you know that, “I don't want to lose Geralt, or you Lady Yennefer. I don't want to lose you.” I'm just like, oh my god. Oh my god, I love them so much. Oh.

ALYCIA: Yeah. And Yennefer definitely gets emotional. I mean, when Ciri does her own little speech, Ciri’s basically crying at that point, you know, terrified of having to lose her newfound parents, you know, being Yennefer and Geralt, and she's crying and Yennefer is trying to reassure her. And you know, Yennefer does sort of like cough a little bit like, I'm not teary eyed at all. And you know, that's very Yennefer being like, you're not getting to me, adorable child. I am a strong sorceress.

ALYSSA: I think Alycia, you had a note here as well about Yennefer as a mother too?

ALYCIA: What did I write? Oh my god.

ALYSSA: Oh. We see a big moment for Yennefer who's always longed to be a mom?

ALYCIA: Oh, yes. Basically, there's this whole theme of Yennefer who has very obviously always wanted to be a mom and always been extremely heartbroken by the fact that becoming a sorcereress sort of destroyed that whole life for her. And you know, it's very interesting to see her actually getting to be that for someone, and especially, you know, it's the whole like tiny adorable family together because she's not taking care of just any child. She's taking care of Geralt’s surprise kid you know, so like it ties her back to him and she sort of falls into it very graciously. You know she is very caring for her but still cares about her opinion and is very honest to her, does not lie to her, and I mean it must be such a moment for Yennefer you know to finally be able to have that and have a child that just loves her, I think without compare because you know, that child just sort of like like a tiny monkey you know, it's just like gone onto Yennefer's back, and it's like you're my momma now. You're mine. But you know, I love that, and I mean she must be very very happy and sort of fulfilled in those moments of having that child that is also Geralt’s child and I mean like, guess what, you guys got to go back together now. I mean, what. 

SARAH: Those are the rules.

ALYSSA: Like the Parent Trap? Yeah —

ALYCIA: Those are rules, yeah. You have a kid now I mean, there's no other choice. Too bad. I want to talk a little bit if I may, about motherhood in the Witcher —

ALYSSA: Mm.

ALYCIA: — because I remember that when the first season for the Witcher came out, there was this website newspaper thingy that did an article about how the Witcher was sort of a sexist show because like the only goal of women was motherhood and it was sort of you know, being like, oh no patriarchy blah blah blah. Women only go for motherhood and I'm like no? And the comments were just people being like, did you even read the book? Did you even like actually watch the show? Because it's so interesting because all of the sorceresses that we meet are unable to bear children and are unable to be mothers that you know just like in the grand life you know, that not everybody wants to be a mother and some sorceresses are definitely very happy with not being able to have kids. Talk about like Philippa I don't really see as having you know, a tiny baby in her arms and like crying him to sleep. But you know, people like that and Yennefer, because she's her own self, Yennefer, that's one of her life goals like, like other people have as life goals. And I remember reading that article and I was very pissed. I'm pretty sure they took it down after because a lot of people come into it and were like no, that's not what it is about.

SARAH: You’re right, I definitely agree with your opinion there, especially because it kind of gets me annoyed when people try and downplay the importance of Yennefer and Ciri’s relationship.

ALYCIA: Yes!

SARAH: I just think it's very interesting of how it's kind of like the theme of breaking the cycle of abuse with Yennefer? Of like she had such a shit time as a child and now it's like she has the chance to kind of have that relationship but in reverse that she is able to have a great relationship with a child but also as well, there are so many stories where it's like a huge focus on the dads and the child and the child is normally a daughter and people lap that shit up you know like be here. Like even you know the Witcher itself, Geralt and Ciri, there are so many series and games and books out there where it's like all about the dad and the child and everyone's like oh my god, this is so amazing. And I'm like, what about the stories with the mum and the child? That is just as important and interesting to explore so I don't like how people will try and downplay this angle or dismiss it and dismiss that relationship because it's like no, this is just as important as Geralt and Ciri’s relationship. Stop trying to cast aside and dismiss like motherhood and the maternal-child relationship is something that's not important because like it is, you know.

ALYCIA: I think that for Witcher 3, sort of definitely had something to blame that —

SARAH: Oh my god. Yes!

ALYCIA: — because I think I got into it through The Witcher 3 and The Witcher 3 is really good at doing Geralt and Ciri’s relationship. It's really really great, but holy moly, are they bad with Yennefer and Ciri! I mean, like if you don't have a backstory, you don't even know that Yennefer is Ciri’s mom. And I mean, like, I spoke about that with people on Reddit. And I mean, like, I feel like because CD Projekt RED was trying to give you the ability to like, go and hang out with Triss — terrible decision by the way, but you know —

ALYSSA: We’re Team Yen in this house.

SARAH: Yes. Absolutely!

ALYCIA: Definitely. But you know, like, I feel like since we were trying to like get the player to maybe choose Triss, they sort of went ahead and didn't give that much importance to Yennefer being Ciri’s mother, which is absolutely idiotic. Because even if Yennefer and Geralt aren't together, and even if Geralt is doing God knows what with Triss, what are you doing Geralt? Only if that's what happening, I mean, Yennefer is still Ciri’s mother. Yennefer is not Ciri’s mother just because like she's there with Geralt, and I guess she hangs out with this kid.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ALYCIA: I mean, like, no. She is definitely her mom.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ALYCIA: Actually, sometimes I do really believe that for Ciri, Yennefer is more like say a mother in the traditional sense than Geralt is her dad, you know. She has the whole hugging her and her whole maternal instinct where Geralt, I also believe is definitely her dad but has more of a like I guess I will give you a sword and teach you how to fight sort of approach?

ALYSSA: Geralt is trying his best. Certainly.

ALYCIA: He’s trying, he’ definitely trying, but you know.

SARAH: Yeah. That is incredibly validating to hear because you know I love the Witcher 3 as well as my favorite game of all time, but oh my god, do I get mad at CDPR sometimes for pretty much exactly what you said? I feel like they really downplayed that relationship. —

ALYCIA: Yeah.

SARAH: — And that really infuriates me and I do feel like it was in service of basically the Triss romance. —

ALYCIA: Yes.

SARAH: — And if you are up to date with my fanfiction, you probably are sick of me talking about it — the author’s notes. I'll save that rant. I won't go on a big rant about that. But….

ALYCIA: No, that's okay. That's okay. I have very strong feelings about Triss too but she's not in the chapter, thank God, but I have strong feelings —

SARAH: Yeah.

ALYCIA: — Oh my God.

SARAH: We get to enjoy this lovely chapter, that’s all about Yennefer and Ciri —

ALYCIA: Yes.

SARAH: — So i always get to come back to this and be like, at least we have this chapter. Objectively the best chapter in the books.

ALYSSA:  Uh huh. As we've been talking about the relationship between them and just maternal relationships in general, the relationship between Yen and Ciri has so much complexity to it because of their own interests and loyalties as well. And we see that juxtaposition between where they start in the bath versus what happens when Ciri reminisces about their first meeting. So as they're talking, Yen thinks out loud like, you didn't like me, and Ciri was like no, no, I didn’t. And —

ALYCIA: Again, total honesty, always.

ALYSSA: — And she thinks back to the first time that they met. Nenneke introduces Yennefer to Ciri. Ciri remembers like she was in class in like a grotto and Iola the First kind of comes in and summons Ciri and she is brought toward Yennefer. It kind of compares Ciri to a small cat throughout this entire section about how angry she is and about how furious she is that, you know, this genuinely beautiful woman is just regarding her in such distaste and with a certain kind of coldness, which ends up having some sort of tension between Yennefer and Nenneke that Ciri you know, being a child and still being very perceptive is, is not blind to. She can clearly see that there's like tension between Yennefer and Nenneke, she brings us up throughout the section and she's just very mad that like no one asked her if she wanted Yennefer to take her and like Geralt didn't say anything. “Why hasn't anyone asked me what I want?” There is that sense of like, stubbornness, independence that she feels I guess assuming now that she's probably been by herself at the temple for a certain amount of time?

ALYCIA: I mean, Ciri must definitely be disappointed. I mean, she just wants to go back to Geralt and suddenly this woman comes in and is all like, “Hello, I'm your new teacher.” It's like I think I would have also been like no one told me about that. Who are you?

SARAH: Oh yeah.

ALYCIA: What is happening?

SARAH: I would be pissed. Like it's funny because obviously we read already like oh, they're really close because we've just seen them interacting with the bath and stuff and it's funny seeing like, how angry she is. And yeah, like a cat she’s like, “I hate this! I hate this, I don’t wanna do this. No one asked me!” I definitely sympathize because I think it would be a pretty kind of intimidating almost in a way that you're suddenly being told that this very beautiful and impressive sorceress who doesn't look like she likes you much —

ALYCIA: Mm.

SARAH: — is going to be teaching you about something that you were not told about this. Oh my god. My favorite thing in stories written by men, the description of certain female attributes. These two mounds! I've never heard of being described as mounds before. This is a new one. It’s just, It really took me out of it. I just read those two mounds which rose with every breath and I'm just like seriously?!

ALYCIA: Yeah. She's breathing. Good for her

SARAH: Oh I need to get a new bra for my mounds. It's like, who describes it as this? Yeah, yeah so I do sympathize with Ciri in some ways even though we know that it all works out well the end because so close —

ALYCIA: Yes.

SARAH: — an unpleasant surprise certainly at the time.

ALYCIA: She's always been a sort of like firecracker little devil kid. I mean, that's not really the behavior you'd expect from a child who, may I remind everyone, was originally raised to be a princess.

SARAH: Yeah!

ALYCIA: She’s always like, I don't wanna do this. How dare you? She's always on like, no, no, no, and she's running around and just doing stuff and it’s like, okay.

SARAH: She's so cheeky. She's like, I'm gonna just run away. Fuck these guys.

ALYCIA: Yes!

ALYSSA: Oh, yes.

SARAH: I’m gonna steal a horse and I’m just gonna run away. You can’t stop me.

ALYCIA: She’sike I'm leaving. I’m done.

ALYSSA: There's a few things I think that we can like learn about this whole thing is, as readers, and it's so interesting for us to be with Ciri throughout this interaction because like I said, she's so perceptive and has so many opinions about what is happening to her and around her. One of the first things is that relationship between Yennefer and Nenneke. We had met Nenneke throughout The Last Wish because she was part of The Voice of Reason when Geralt was healing after his fight with the striga. She was just as sassy then. Mother Nenneke wass just as sassy then. Equally here is not going to take any bullshit from Yennefer at all. And so Yennefer, you know, is talking to Nenneke about everything about Ciri, about what she's there to do. Yen observes that like, Nenneke look at this child, look at this word, if she could have her ears flat against her head, she would, as a small little cat. One of their points of contention is that Yennefer kind of goes off about like, they should have known better than to give her stimulants. Like I can't believe Geralt would be so reckless, and Nenneke is just like, I know more about this than you do and they're fine. And then the other one was toward the end, and just this really awkward moment where they're arguing and Nenneke is just like, “Yennefer, this girl is not who you think she is.” And Yennefer’s like, what's that? And Nenneke’s just like your rival. And there's this moment that is —

SARAH: That is so awkward.

ALYSSA: — I know! And there’s this moment where Ciri is like watching them. And she's like, for a fraction of a second they looked at each other. The tension was so palpable, and then Yennefer just laughs it off

SARAH: The drama.

ALYSSA: I know, I know. And being a child and seeing these things, it's like you can still tell that something is wrong. You know, when people are fighting. You know, when there's tension. There's nothing you could do about it but you can clearly observe at these things are happening which is why I think it's interesting to be with Ciri during this.

ALYCIA: Yeah. I mean, Nenneke is definitely being a mother-in-law to Yennefer and being like, mm hmm, I have the interests of my son and my granddaughter to protect.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

SARAH: It is like, okay.

ALYCIA: And you know, she I think she knows, I mean, through, she’s probably heard it through other people. But you know, the whole downfall of Geralt and Yennefer’s story. And she’s like, don't you hurt her? Don't you go back and hurt my son. Be nice. She's protecting her pack.

SARAH: Yeah, it just reminded me though, it was something interesting that Nenneke saying like, please be kind hearted and understanding and Yennefer they have this kind of this dramatic kind of battle of like wills for a second with her. She's not your rival, Yennefer. But Yennefer goes back to one and like I said, and I think it's just I don't know, again, if this was meant to be a deliberate callback, but I thought was interesting, where Yennefer says, being kind hearted, there might be a problem with that. Because after all, it is widely thought I don't possess any such organ. And I was wondering if that was meant to be a reference to, god, was it like Chapter One in Blood of Elves, where she's speaking with Dandelion, and she's like, “Hey, I heard all those poems that you wrote about me.” And he's immediately like, “Oh, shit. Oh, shit.” —

ALYSSA: Yeah.

SARAH: — He’s written all these poems about her. And she says, Who gave you permission to describe my internal organs and she's saying, you know, all these words like her heart as though a jewel adorned her neck, hard as if of a diamond made and as a diamond so in feeling and I can't help but wonder if it's like, has she maybe in a way, taken these kinds of things. She comes across as so kind of, I don't care what people think of me. But maybe she has taken some of these words to heart, this idea that oh, she's so unfeeling. And she doesn't have a heart just, yeah, the repetition of the word organ and describing my organs. I don't possess any such organ, I just, it made me think of that.

ALYCIA: I feel like you know, the same way that people think that witchers don't feel emotions, you know, like I feel like there's this sort of general idea that sorceresses don't really have a heart. I mean, as in, they will do everything in their own interests, they’re sort of like superior, like, people don't really understand them. And first sort of like beings that are super beautiful, but people are sort of afraid of getting to them. And I think there's sort of this idea that they don't have any emotion. And also, I think that, you know, as much as, the same way that Dandelion was Team Geralt when they broke up, I think Nenneke was also Team Geralt when they broke up. So you know, I think Yennefer assumes that Nenneke thinks that, and I'm pretty sure if that is the truth.

ALYSSA: Well, I think the interesting thing about that is that Yennefer here, she's just like, you're always on his side. You're always looking after him. You're always against me. I think even if Nenneke does have a bias and/or she has trouble with Yennefer, I think she tries to be as fair as possible. Because I think in A Voice of Reason, if I'm remembering correctly, I think it was either right before or right after they talked about the Last Wish, Geralt like pulls out a bunch of gems from his pocket and he's like, give these to Yennefer —

ALYCIA: Yes.

ALYSSA: — because da-da-da da-da, I just want to — they haven't talked in like I think a few years and Nenneke is like you're a fucking idiot. This is not gonna fix anything.

ALYCIA: That’s exactly right.

ALYSSA: So it’s like I don't think that she's completely against Yennefer. I would guess or assume that she sees the way that they treat each other and she's not happy about some of it. That would be my guess from seeing both how she talks individually to Geralt and how she talks individually to Yen, but who knows.

ALYCIA: And I think also she cares very much for Ciri and she sort of worried of, maybe how Yennefer might react to Ciri and you know, that she could be a little harsh to maybe this girl who has suffered enough. And it's, you know, some comfort and a mother.

ALYSSA: Yeah. Eventually, Nenneke, you know, gives Ciri to Yennefer and they go off. This short little section opens with Ciri being like, nobody asked me. I don't know what — she's finally getting out all the things that she couldn't really say in front of Nenneke. She has no qualms about like giving Yennefer a piece of her mind. At this point, she's just like, no one asked me if I wanted to be trained. I don't want to participate in these stupid tests. I can't do magic. I'm a virgin. Ugh! At some point, Ciri notices Yennefer's obsidian and diamond necklace and kind of sees that they pulsate and is like momentarily like infatuated with it before snapping out of it. Ciri’s just like no, I need time to think about this and then there's a moment of silence and Yennefer’s like okay, well, have you thought about it? And Ciri’s like “No!” 

ALYCIA: I love that!

ALYSSA: I know! It was a very funny moment, in this very, you know, serious and grave situation. Ciri’s like, no, no, no, no, I need a whole day and a night. Yennefer here, you know, she's gotten the letters and the download from Geralt. She knows what's happening from Nennke, and she says, “The saying goes that the night brings solutions. But in your case, surprise, the only thing night can bring is yet another nightmare. You'll wake up, again, screaming and in pain, drenched in sweat. You'll be frightened, again, frightened of all that you saw, frightened of what you won't be able to remember. And there will be no more sleep that night. There will be fear until dawn.” And then Yennefer eventually says you'll submit to the test surprise, and Ciri just says I will because it's not a question anymore. So it's yeah, it's a very uhm intense moment but you kind of see, as you said, Sarah, like that battle of wills, you know, previously between Nenneke and Yennefer, but now that they're on their own between Ciri and Yen.

SARAH: I like how the, uhm, just before Yennefer says you'll submit to the tests and Ciri says, I will, there's that moment where suddenly Yennefer is being described in a very kind of warm positive way like her shoulder is warm. The black velvet of her dress asked to be touched and her embrace calmed and soothe, relaxed, tempered, excitement. And that's when she says you submit to the tests and Ciri says I will. I think that's just cool that there's that slight change in her demeanor for a second and it's after that that Ciri says yeah, I'll submit.

ALYCIA: Is that the moment where, I can't remember if that's when Yennefer is like, don't put yourself to shame and don't put me to shame, not in front of Geralt, because I really liked that sentence you know, it's like a reminder of like Yennefer, in some way, is very curious about seeing who Ciri is because she's a source and because of the powers but also because she's Geralt’s child surprise, but at the same time with the dear friend letter, we can understand that she's still a tiny bit annoyed at him. Just a tiny bit. And, and I mean, you know, I feel like in the beginning at least when she gets there she's like, okay, I'm doing this favor to him—

ALYSSA: Mm hmm.

ALYCIA: —but like she better be worth it, you know what I mean, sort of this idea. But at the same time, Yennefer, as much as she wants to pretend always does things for Geralt in sense of like, she always helps him but like, doesn't want him to know the same way that Geralt was all like you take those jewels and give them to Yennefer. We haven't spoken for years, but still take them.

ALYSSA: Yeah.

ALYCIA: You know what I mean like, they still do this thing but I feel like at the beginning it was like Yennefer doesn't want to disappoint Geralt, and wants to be, if not a mother, at least in the beginning, a good teacher for that kid.

ALYSSA: I think there is that kind of dance where they still respect each other. But as you said, they're like, still a little mad at each other. One of the things that I think I'd mentioned earlier in our discussion was just like, they're both very, very formidable women in their own right, but they still have similar loyalties, which makes their infighting really interesting, because they both have loyalty to Geralt. They're both generally like morally straight and like their interests are similar but slightly at odds and they don't trust each other, but it makes their relationships so interesting. And their growth to a mother-daughter relationship, very rewarding, I think for readers.

ALYCIA: I think you know, also since they were brought together by Geralt, they both trust him as you said, so Siri must feel like you know, if she was recommended by Geralt, she can't be like that bad and I feel like you know, Yennefer sort of feels the same way about Ciri, you know, she's his child surprise, and as much as like to pretend that I kind of liked the dude. So you know, she's probably sort of cool.

SARAH: Yeah, just kind of seconding that, it feels like both a point of contention and a point of similarity, especially with Nenneke saying she's not your rival, but they both have this close relationship with Geralt. It’s interesting seeing here, you know, kind of in the beginning, the mention of Geralt is a bit more fraught but then over the course of the chapter becomes a lot more comfortable, and kind of even a source of bonding, which I think is very nice. It's just a very realistic and natural progression, I would say.

ALYSSA: It is, of course, very interesting to see like, as we've talked about, we see where their relationship ends up in the present. We've gone back to the origins of their first meeting in the beginning of this section. Now we're gonna kind of see the journey that that took through a series of vignettes that close out the rest of this chapter.

ALYSSA (VOICEOVER): Before we explore more of Ciri’s memories with Yennefer, we’re going to end our discussion here. Join me, Sarah A. from the UK, and Alycia from France, as we conclude Andrzej Sapkowski’s Blood of Elves in the next episode for a spectacular end to Season 3 of Breakfast in Beauclair.

Outro & Credits

[Breakfast in Beauclair theme music by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA: Thanks for joining us at the breakfast table! For show notes, transcripts of each episode, and a complete list of our social platforms and listening services, head over to breakfastinbeauclair.com.

Breakfast in Beauclair is created by Alyssa from GoodMorhen. It’s hosted by Alyssa with the “Tidings from Toussaint” News Segment by Lars from WitcherFlix. The show is edited by Alyssa with music by MojoFilter Media.

Breakfast in Beauclair is produced by Alyssa in New York City with Luis of Kovir, The Owner of The Churlish Porpoise, Arix the Godling, Katie (The Redhead of Toussaint), Jacob B., Ayvo of Gulet, Bee Haven of the Edge of the World, Charlotte from Vengerberg Glamarye, RedKite, The Original Roach, Codringher’s Cat, Libby, Clare Odell, Jennidy Mundilovitch, Brett from California, Wolf, Corey from the US, John of Ryblia, Sebastian von Novigrad, Tom from Australia, Jill Cate, The Tabby Witch, Olle from Sweden, James Carson III, and Kyle, the H2HOE.

Special thanks to Sarah and Alycia for joining us for this episode and our international hanza for their support.

Transcriptionist: Sheena Esguerra
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil

 

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